Conquer Club

Losing Slovakia is a bigger blow.

Dukasaur wrote:Losing Slovakia is a bigger blow.

Yeah, but there was a reason for that, was one given for deleting Haloween Hallows?

blakebowling wrote:I've made my decision, I'm just waiting on a few details to be finalized. I should have a post ready within the next week or so.

So, it's been 2 weeks now. Any news?

waauw wrote:

blakebowling wrote:I've made my decision, I'm just waiting on a few details to be finalized. I should have a post ready within the next week or so.

So, it's been 2 weeks now. Any news?

Yeah, and what was the decision about? Tea or coffee?

Dukasaur wrote:Losing Slovakia is a bigger blow.

What's so special about that map? I don't see anything particularly anazing about it
Halloween was played #150/251 for popularity @ 215+ a month over 100 less popular

IcePack wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Losing Slovakia is a bigger blow.

What's so special about that map? I don't see anything particularly anazing about it
Halloween was played #150/251 for popularity @ 215+ a month over 100 less popular

I found it interesting, and visually beautiful, as well.

As far as popularity goes, it's really not fair to compare maps that were released when the site was booming and new maps were eagerly anticipated, to maps that were released when the site was in decline and there was no sense of excitement. I suspect there are a lot of maps that have an average 200+ monthly plays (over their entire lifespan) but are getting 100- monthly as of right now.

Finally, I suspect Halloween Hallows isn't dead; it's just been reclassified as a special event map, which logically speaking it should have been anyway. Slovakia, on the other hand, probably really is dead.

Dukasaur wrote:

IcePack wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Losing Slovakia is a bigger blow.

What's so special about that map? I don't see anything particularly anazing about it
Halloween was played #150/251 for popularity @ 215+ a month over 100 less popular

I found it interesting, and visually beautiful, as well.

As far as popularity goes, it's really not fair to compare maps that were released when the site was booming and new maps were eagerly anticipated, to maps that were released when the site was in decline and there was no sense of excitement. I suspect there are a lot of maps that have an average 200+ monthly plays (over their entire lifespan) but are getting 100- monthly as of right now.

Finally, I suspect Halloween Hallows isn't dead; it's just been reclassified as a special event map, which logically speaking it should have been anyway. Slovakia, on the other hand, probably really is dead.

What they want to do with beta maps / maps in process I don't really care what they do it doesn't affect many, and betas are warned as incomplete and could change etc anyway so even for the few things it does impact, they've been warned.

What I care about is reclassifying maps that were perma released and changing that status with no warning, no announcement, and no discussion. People plan clan wars and tournaments around maps and changing those without advanced notice fucks up those plans.

I don't disagree...

Looks like the Foundry IS officially dead! There are no longer any cartos!

Ah, so nobody to decide about whatever it was that was being decided?

Teflon Kris wrote:Ah, so nobody to decide about whatever it was that was being decided?

It means there is currently nobody there for stamping and quenching, except maybe an admin, but that's not their main task.
As far as I know, we're still waiting for an official announcement.

Just for clarification- what are you guys seeing? I can still create a game on Halloween Hollows, and it still shows on the map list and everything.

Hopefully the removal is temporary. Like cycling through maps that are less popular and putting them on a rotation so that when they're up, they gain popularity like the seasonal maps do.

JamesKer1 wrote:Just for clarification- what are you guys seeing? I can still create a game on Halloween Hollows, and it still shows on the map list and everything.

Hopefully the removal is temporary. Like cycling through maps that are less popular and putting them on a rotation so that when they're up, they gain popularity like the seasonal maps do.

If that's the plan, it's a terrible plan. How can people plan around unannounced removals and cycling through maps for clan wars and tournaments?

waauw wrote:

Teflon Kris wrote:Ah, so nobody to decide about whatever it was that was being decided?

It means there is currently nobody there for stamping and quenching, except maybe an admin, but that's not their main task.
As far as I know, we're still waiting for an official announcement.

The announcement about we-dont-know-what that was announced to be taking place 'in a week' sometime since the dinosaurs.

In the meantime, we are running-out of tumbleweed !

isaiah40 wrote:Looks like the Foundry IS officially dead! There are no longer any cartos!

Wow. Sad times

Teflon Kris wrote:

waauw wrote:

Teflon Kris wrote:Ah, so nobody to decide about whatever it was that was being decided?

It means there is currently nobody there for stamping and quenching, except maybe an admin, but that's not their main task.
As far as I know, we're still waiting for an official announcement.

The announcement about we-dont-know-what that was announced to be taking place 'in a week' sometime since the dinosaurs.

In the meantime, we are running-out of tumbleweed !

We may not have anymore tumbleweed, but we do have those pesky crickets. *chirp* * chirp*

Well, the crickets may help us, if we, the players, can add to their noise, then we can keep map-making alive.

The current top brass often listen to players, so lets make a campaign, either keep the foundry alive (maybe with a little reform), or create something to replace it.

I said a week because I was optimistic that someone would chime in on the discussion by then. Clearly that has not happened.

The only logical decision that I can see is to close the Foundry, but that will be clearly met with outrage from those of you who are apparently so dedicated to it.

If the foundry is going to recover, we need not only volunteers with a lot of spare time but also a massive increase in the activity of the foundry as a whole.

I believe there are too many maps already, and if anything the least popular maps should be removed. I'm sure I'll get a lot of panicked bashing for that as well.

blakebowling wrote:

Click image to enlarge.

I said a week because I was optimistic that someone would chime in on the discussion by then. Clearly that has not happened.

The only logical decision that I can see is to close the Foundry, but that will be clearly met with outrage from those of you who are apparently so dedicated to it.

If the foundry is going to recover, we need not only volunteers with a lot of spare time but also a massive increase in the activity of the foundry as a whole.

I believe there are too many maps already, and if anything the least popular maps should be removed. I'm sure I'll get a lot of panicked bashing for that as well.

I think it would be less "panicked" if they were announced ahead of time so people can work around the sites plans.

Aha

Thanks for your post. Apologies for moaning whilst waiting, I appreciate you have lots of other stuff to focus on.

Ok, rather than bash you prematurly, a little further explanation might help avoid bashing.

For example:

If the foundry is going to recover, we need not only volunteers with a lot of spare time but also a massive increase in the activity of the foundry as a whole.

Can we not just have a foundry that is maybe not a hive of activity but that helps a few maps progress quickly?

Anyway, I would like to volunteer, to give a little time, say, a few hours each weekend guaranteed, plus little pockets of time weekdays where I can? I'd say I'm best helping with suggestions to add quality to maps at Draft stage, and with Gameplay in the main foundry. Plus maybe, little articles for the newsletter focussing on specific maps where the mapmaker is regularly updating?

However, the foundry does need someone with map experience to uphold standards etc., or maybe a small team of such people, an 'Expert Panel'. This role could be arranged to be less onerous than in the past. Maybe such folks simply undertake a review of specific maps in development on a periodic basis, or review the Main Foundry and Final Forge on alternate weeks?

I believe there are too many maps already, and if anything the least popular maps should be removed.

I'm not sure I see a great problem with having loads of maps, apart from it being overwhelming to new players. Maybe make some of the less popular maps only available to premium players, and only feature the most popular in the main 'Maps' tab (with a link to another page for 'Other' maps)? Or, at worst, make any removed maps available for special events, or tournaments and clan games only, so they are still available now-and-again.

Although many maps may be rarely used, there is already a massive choice for players, and few members ever venture over to the foundry, a huge proportion of established players look forward to, and enjoy, new maps coming along, even if they only play some a few times. At one time or another, we have all (those of us that have played for a long time), started playing a new map and it has become one of our personal favorites.

I'm pretty confident that if most members knew of the foundry struggles and the solution you are considering, a huge proportion would back a more reformist approach rather than no new maps (and the removal of some old ones).

Hope this doesn't come accross as a 'bash' but some constructive questions, alternatives and offer of on-going support.

blakebowling wrote:

Click image to enlarge.

I said a week because I was optimistic that someone would chime in on the discussion by then. Clearly that has not happened.

The only logical decision that I can see is to close the Foundry, but that will be clearly met with outrage from those of you who are apparently so dedicated to it.

If the foundry is going to recover, we need not only volunteers with a lot of spare time but also a massive increase in the activity of the foundry as a whole.

I believe there are too many maps already, and if anything the least popular maps should be removed. I'm sure I'll get a lot of panicked bashing for that as well.

Cartographers
If there are sufficient people out there with capable experience in cartographing and willing to volunteer, things could stay as they are and continue to get managed in a top-to-bottom kind of way. However chances are that that might not happen. The solution could thus be a bottom-up management of the cartography section. This means that cartography volunteers will be responsible for administration, and leave judgement up to players visiting the cartography section.

Foundry activity:
The following problem, as you also adressed, is general foundry activity. In my opinion what we need is a more detailed set of requirements to move through the foundry up until beta. Once in Beta map-topics are frequented more often and activity rises. It's easier to judge a map once you've already played it, especially for those players who don't check the forums every week. One thing that I suspect might scare people out of the foundry is the fact that they would have to read through pages to find explanations. Considering human laziness many people will refuse to dedicate said time reading. It's more fun to explore a map playing, rather than reading. Mostly special-gameplay maps will suffer under this as they are less easy to comprehend.

That being said, there are still people who comment on maps pre-beta. They are I think in lesser numbers and comment less frequently as well. This problem could in my opinion be solved. In a backer-system, where maps are required to hold a certain number of players to back the progression, mapmakers would be more inclined to actively propagate their maps with co-players. Eager to obtain certain numbers, maps could progress through the foundry faster and map creation would have the seemingness of a higher feasibility with clearer goals in mind. This system of course does require a cartographer watching over the foundry making sure nobody moves up fraudulently.

Too many maps:
It is indeed a certainty some people will be malcontent with any decision in this regard. The only wise decision is thus an open forum on the subject. This enables website management to wash its hands clean on the subject, as it is the community not them that make the decision. Secondly, in combination with a bottom-up system within the foundry, players will have more of an impression that their opinions matter. People like to be appreciated and listened to. This could raise overall satisfaction of the players for website-management, strengthening the bond with mostly the core-players of the website. Public Relation-wise this could be a strong gesture, as long as community moderators make sure the discussion doesn't deteriorate into chaos.

Possible itinerary for an open forum:

• 1. come up with criteria which decide what maps are open for debate
• 2. discuss each map seperately and put them to a vote, followed by deletion of losing maps
• 3. notify all original mapmakers of the dumped maps, what they would have to change if they want their map to be re-accepted(based on previous step)
• 4. create an open discussion as to which types of maps the players desire for future beta(in order to generate renewed interest in the foundry and hopefully inspire mapmakers)
• 5. discuss any remaining subjects, mostly opening up for new ideas

volunteers? tell me why volunteers (not just cartographers, but all colured guys) would work in their free time for several guys behind scene? for their higher income?
CC looks as the whole world. several guys make the rules and have profit. and CC (or guys behind) does not care about things long time, therefore is situation as it is now.

Oneyed

Oneyed wrote:volunteers? tell me why volunteers (not just cartographers, but all colured guys) would work in their free time for several guys behind scene? for their higher income?

We work for a game we love and are passionate about. That's the simple answer. Most of the work volunteers do is behind the scenes- planning events, cleaning up forums, dealing with griping users- and that's alright. There is no fame and glory we strive for, and none really to be given. All the best work is done without recognition, and the inspiration only comes from a desire to make the game more pleasurable for yourself and others.

But then again, who am I to talk. A lot of these guys have it more together than I do.


Also, wauuw is my new favorite forum commenter. I agree with everything he said above and ever will say because of that fantastic piece of literature.

JamesKer1 wrote:

Oneyed wrote:volunteers? tell me why volunteers (not just cartographers, but all colured guys) would work in their free time for several guys behind scene? for their higher income?

We work for a game we love and are passionate about. That's the simple answer. Most of the work volunteers do is behind the scenes- planning events, cleaning up forums, dealing with griping users- and that's alright. There is no fame and glory we strive for, and none really to be given. All the best work is done without recognition, and the inspiration only comes from a desire to make the game more pleasurable for yourself and others.

But then again, who am I to talk. A lot of these guys have it more together than I do.


Also, wauuw is my new favorite forum commenter. I agree with everything he said above and ever will say because of that fantastic piece of literature.

well, so you as volunteer care more about site as owners. because this site is still alive only becasue volunteers who made big work during years. and these who have several thousands of dolars per year care so little that site is almost dead.
great ratio. I have one question on you as volunteer - gived CC premium to you ever? what CC did/do for volunteers who are behind this site? what did CC for mapmakers? without mapmakers would be CC dead years ago. the CC was not able to find anyway how to communiacate with mapmakers. because CC did not care. because money, money, money...? do you know how much great mapmakers leaved CC? becasue CC did not care.
(I made one map for CC and several drafts (some was promissing according echos), so I a little know about what I speak).

Oneyed

blakebowling wrote:

Click image to enlarge.

I said a week because I was optimistic that someone would chime in on the discussion by then. Clearly that has not happened.

The only logical decision that I can see is to close the Foundry, but that will be clearly met with outrage from those of you who are apparently so dedicated to it.

If the foundry is going to recover, we need not only volunteers with a lot of spare time but also a massive increase in the activity of the foundry as a whole.

I believe there are too many maps already, and if anything the least popular maps should be removed. I'm sure I'll get a lot of panicked bashing for that as well.

No map should be deleted, deleting a single map will only force the map makers away. They all know that if today someones map is deleted, same thing might happen to their map tomorrow. And they really do invest a lot of time for a single map to see the light of the day.