Soaps Role Madness! Day 4

[Loose Canon]

Iaagree with what has been said about swang. When I pressured him in tick game I got a stronger scum sense. Too late now for d1 and probably not the perfect time. But if anyone genuinely feels scum then d2 onwards maybe you could try on him?

[Extreme Ways]

I trust pmc for now at least, so I'm happy to try to put some pressure on people and back you up.

I agree and I also think PMC is town and contribute a lot. I have a feeling scum is scared of this and want to get rid of him asap, therefore I am voting whoever I think is scum trying to get rid of PMC. Let's get a claim out of EW.

Vote EW

Can you show me where I have tried to get rid of kong?

Afterwards I will show you how I have manouvered around kong.

I am not talking about Kong, I am referring to PMC.

I misread, my bad.

If pmc would acknowledge that I have in fact made some reads - the harder ones, too - I'll probably unvote him dw. I just find that push to be ingenuine but it's clear that he'll never go over today anyway.

[pmchugh]

fusi deserves some attention
I found pmc townie but that thing with rag is super weird???
loose is still in my sus pile

I havent gotten many townie pings except our newcomer.

@pmc

Fusi had been inactive, saying be deserves attention is not a read. What do you think of his longer post?

What do you think of pixar?

Why is Loose in your Sus pile?

[Loose Canon]

Looks like there could be bit of a wagon growing against PMC - and I reckon fresh from his success in the Wilds - he could be scum.
There's quite a bit offered by and written about PMC which I'll consider D2 onwards if I'm still alive.

However one thing I agree with PMC about is that he has invested himself in this game so in appreciation of that, for D1 I'm not willing to join a vote against PMC.

That leaves Dev and Pix each with 2 votes.

Pixar has made 10 posts none of which to my way of thinking have said anything. Devs posts while also frustratingly small (er) in quantity have to me said more.

For that reason - and I'd like a 4 hopefully 5 vote wagon to build on him quickly if possible;

Vote *Pixar

Don't care if its to build pressure or results in an actual lynching.

#givelynchachance

[Loose Canon]

Sorry Unvote Extreme Vote *Pixar

[DirtyDishSoap]

Voting List of Lynchers

(1) Dev - Strike
(2) Pix - PMC, Loose
(3) Pmc - Ragoo, Pix, EW
(3) EW - Loose, Charle, Kong


With 13 alive, it takes 7 for a lynch!

[swang918]

It's been a lot more substantive D1 so far than previous games, so that's good. Some thoughts--

I don't trust either townslip, by kong or devante. We don't know anything about kong and devante has played enough to potentially have fake slip in his repetoire. If he is scum and had the idea to do a fake slip he has to do it now because obv the more he plays the less believable it would be. also, for kong, even if he is genuine newb with genuine slip, he could still be third party.

loose cannon reads town for me. I had noticed when he is scum or 3p that he's very diplomatic and tries to avoid antagonizing anyone, just floating ideas like "what if this..." and "what if that..." This game he's been more direct and confrontational.

the case against ew is just weak. Pmc's original reasoning was that EW was being helpful to kong. and then says that well he pushed ew to see who defends him, and apparently he would read a defense of EW as town if EW turns out to be scum--pretty nonsensical to me. EW just over explains stuff sometimes, that's just how he plays anyway.

Basically I mostly agree w votanic that everybody is doing their usual MO with not much to read into right now. The only one that seem v different from last game besides loose is pmc. When he was scum last game I thought his takes were reasonable until late into the game. Here I feel like his logic is weaker. With the weak case on EW and then, this phantom post restriction thing on fusi, which to be fair he has come off of. But I think fusi's original pmc vote was pretty obviously a jokey salty vote referencing us losing the last game, and DDS's mod bold count was also obviously a joke at fusi's cap bolding. To think it was some kind of post restriction seems forced. So I would say PMC reads more scummy here than last game. But then I guess at this point it's impossible to tell the difference between a scum trying to push weak cases on towns vs a town pushing weak cases for the sake of building a voting record. So idk.

re some comments about my activity, I feel like I generally do lay back more in D1 and then ramp it up if I survive to later.

[swang918]

I nominate fusi for president, a lot of sense in that post. He nailed the exact reason why I am different this game. Unfortunately, I do have a post activity/information tell. My style is to be an open book and talkative as town, because I think its the most helpful way to play. It screws me over as mafia though, because it's quite hard to be an open book when you know who the wolves are and don't want them lynched.

And vot, you can look up all of my early games in the archive of this site if you really want, although they were like 10 years ago or something so not promising I will be exactly the same. I am not claiming to be a genius, just frustrated by the no lynch style. No Lynch is poison because people can phone it in day 1. I don't mind if a given game ends up there, but if every game does then day 1 is a breeze for mafia. I want them uncomfortable.

But then why were you pushing lynch D1 as scum last game?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Voting List of Lynchers

(1) Dev - Strike
(2) Pix - PMC, Loose
(3) Pmc - Ragoo, Pix, EW
(2) EW - Charle, Kong


With 13 alive, it takes 7 for a lynch!

EBWOP. Counted loose twice by accident. Corrected above.

[pmchugh]

It's been a lot more substantive D1 so far than previous games, so that's good. Some thoughts--

I don't trust either townslip, by kong or devante. We don't know anything about kong and devante has played enough to potentially have fake slip in his repetoire. If he is scum and had the idea to do a fake slip he has to do it now because obv the more he plays the less believable it would be. also, for kong, even if he is genuine newb with genuine slip, he could still be third party.

loose cannon reads town for me. I had noticed when he is scum or 3p that he's very diplomatic and tries to avoid antagonizing anyone, just floating ideas like "what if this..." and "what if that..." This game he's been more direct and confrontational.

the case against ew is just weak. Pmc's original reasoning was that EW was being helpful to kong. and then says that well he pushed ew to see who defends him, and apparently he would read a defense of EW as town if EW turns out to be scum--pretty nonsensical to me. EW just over explains stuff sometimes, that's just how he plays anyway.

Basically I mostly agree w votanic that everybody is doing their usual MO with not much to read into right now. The only one that seem v different from last game besides loose is pmc. When he was scum last game I thought his takes were reasonable until late into the game. Here I feel like his logic is weaker. With the weak case on EW and then, this phantom post restriction thing on fusi, which to be fair he has come off of. But I think fusi's original pmc vote was pretty obviously a jokey salty vote referencing us losing the last game, and DDS's mod bold count was also obviously a joke at fusi's cap bolding. To think it was some kind of post restriction seems forced. So I would say PMC reads more scummy here than last game. But then I guess at this point it's impossible to tell the difference between a scum trying to push weak cases on towns vs a town pushing weak cases for the sake of building a voting record. So idk.

re some comments about my activity, I feel like I generally do lay back more in D1 and then ramp it up if I survive to later.

If I seem different, maybe it's because I have a different alignment?

If my scum mate gets targetted by someone day 1 in a weak way, no way am I jumping to their defence as it ties me to them in some way. Of course, WIFOM and all that but still it's perfectly logical.

Also, sometimes I think its fair to say my cases feel weaker as town, because I think mafia is subtle and that scum tells can be subtle. When I am mafia, I am worried about how I sound, when I am town I worry about who I think is mafia.

Finally, as to why I pushed lynching day 1 last game the answer is simple, as mafia, you should pretend you are the town version of you and try to be as genuine as possible. Like, now, in my next scum game I will try remember to make my reads weaker based on this chat..

[Loose Canon]

Interesting post exchange between Swang and PMC.
Both made a lot of sense to me.
The one thing that did prick my senses was PMCs "If I do seem different maybe its because I have a different alignment?"
It was in between so much sense that on first read I thought I either thought nothing of it or if I did it would have been yes perhaps PMC does have a different alignment.
Reading it again today though I thought hmmm I'm not so sure.
Very light scum tingle from PMCs last post - for me.

[Extreme Ways]

unvote vote loose
To still have my vote somewhere. Also, does mafia have daychat here?

[Extreme Ways]

unvote vote loose

[Loose Canon]

That's brave Extreme - voting me, but waiting till I'd unvoted you....

[Extreme Ways]

That's brave Extreme - voting me, but waiting till I'd unvoted you....

lmao voting be when pmc voted me was brave too

[swang918]

If my scum mate gets targetted by someone day 1 in a weak way, no way am I jumping to their defence as it ties me to them in some way. Of course, WIFOM and all that but still it's perfectly logical.

It's just as logical to say that if your scum mate gets targeted d1, you should jump to their defense to nip it in the bud before the randwagon gets out of hand. So to randomly choose one logical interpretation among two logical interpretations is itself illogical.

If I seem different, maybe it's because I have a different alignment?

Or, you are being different because you're scum again and you're switching it up to get out in front of people saying you're playing similarly? With how strong your scum play was last game I don't put this past you.
In fact I would say that the chances of you intentionally being different as scum, is slightly higher than you being simultaneously a super strong player as scum and somehow a much weaker player as town.

Vote PMC

[strike wolf]

I don't think PMC is scum. I disagree with a lot of his analysis and I think he's too quick to write off the scum tells from Loose but he's been active and he's prodding which to me suggests that he's looking for reaction to make reads off of which I think is more likely of him to do as town. Swang also reads to me as town. He went against the grain on the mass claim statements and he is now picking a fight with PMC which I don't think Scum Swang would do Day 1 when PMC proved that he can be a very strong player and a tough lynch.

I'm really not sold on anybody entirely. Fusi and Traf are both too quiet for my liking but Fusi has at least claimed to be preoccupied and at least one other person backed that up. Traf meanwhile feels like he's skating in his responses today but also made a bold statement earlier which I either try to call his possible bluff or play wait and see if he can actually back it up when it's time to do so.

So I keep coming back to Loose who I sfmit is a bit of a wild card and not someone who I can say with much confidence that I know how to read as scum. It's true that Loose also pushed the idea of claiming in The Tick game but as far as I can tell he hasn't since. So I have to wonder why go back to it now? I also feel like Loose is connected to other players at this point and would be a more informative lynch than Pixar who is quiet so far which seems just kind of how he is most times now of days regardless of alignment.

Unvote Devante Vote Loose

[swang918]

I don't like voting loose. My slight town read on him notwithstanding, he's been third party w no chance of winning like the last 3 games and also getting bounced early. If we are randwagoning on thin cases I much prefer someone else.

[pmchugh]

I am starting to feel like a distraction, but can't help but respond.

If my scum mate gets targetted by someone day 1 in a weak way, no way am I jumping to their defence as it ties me to them in some way. Of course, WIFOM and all that but still it's perfectly logical.

It's just as logical to say that if your scum mate gets targeted d1, you should jump to their defense to nip it in the bud before the randwagon gets out of hand. So to randomly choose one logical interpretation among two logical interpretations is itself illogical.

If I seem different, maybe it's because I have a different alignment?

Or, you are being different because you're scum again and you're switching it up to get out in front of people saying you're playing similarly? With how strong your scum play was last game I don't put this past you.
In fact I would say that the chances of you intentionally being different as scum, is slightly higher than you being simultaneously a super strong player as scum and somehow a much weaker player as town.

Vote PMC

No, it's not just as logical to defend a scum mate day 1 random voting phase in case it becomes something. This is a huge risk with near zero upside, the only benefit of doing it as scum is that it is illogical to do so and acting illogically makes you harder to see through.

I think you misunderstood me, I am not weaker at reading as town, my cases may sound weaker to others, but only because I am happy to say, this subtle thing so and so did, is a big scum indicator, and that can sound weaker than toeing the line. I can also sound much stronger in later days as town, because then I have real evidence and haven't had to push several mislynches.

I do have to admit I am struggling a bit with my reads at the moment. I don't find people too suspicious yet.

[Ragian]

What a weekend!

I'm a couple of pages behind and reading up now.

[Ragian]

What I notice the most is that a fair few players steered the wagon away from PMS as it had generated a bit of momentum. First off was Charle voting for Pixar, but Kong was quick to follow suit. EW is in here, too, voting LC. Strike at least flat out said that he doesn't think that PMS is scum, so, yeah, I guess there is that.

It's also nice to see Fusi and Swang in here. The latter I agree with on the LC votes. It seems like opting out of thinking. To be honest, I had a slight suss feeling towards LC in the beginning with his weird lover-calling of various players, which seemed grabbed out of...well nothing. Several players listed LC as slightly suss based on his initial play.

Now, our votes are divided between 3-4 players. Time is running out.

@Loose, why are you voting Pixar?

[Loose Canon]

Rag I'm voting pix to give a chance of a lynch.
Im not voting PMC because he's contributed a lot to D1 chat.
Of the others who had votes I looked at posts and pix to me had made a lot of posts to appear busy but none had said anything.
So maybe flying under the radar while appearing to be busy.

[Ragian]

You've played with Pixar before, however. Wouldn't you say that he always plays like that?

[*Pixar*]

Rag I'm voting pix to give a chance of a lynch.
Im not voting PMC because he's contributed a lot to D1 chat.
Of the others who had votes I looked at posts and pix to me had made a lot of posts to appear busy but none had said anything.
So maybe flying under the radar while appearing to be busy.

What do you mean give us a chance of a lynch? Like you want to skip the whole claiming part?

Deadline is Wednesday so I think we should at least get a claim before days end, if claim comes as a duplicate role, then we can discuss lynching today. I'm fairly confident all of us have some sort of power role.

[Extreme Ways]

What I notice the most is that a fair few players steered the wagon away from PMS as it had generated a bit of momentum. First off was Charle voting for Pixar, but Kong was quick to follow suit. EW is in here, too, voting LC. Strike at least flat out said that he doesn't think that PMS is scum, so, yeah, I guess there is that.

It's also nice to see Fusi and Swang in here. The latter I agree with on the LC votes. It seems like opting out of thinking. To be honest, I had a slight suss feeling towards LC in the beginning with his weird lover-calling of various players, which seemed grabbed out of...well nothing. Several players listed LC as slightly suss based on his initial play.

Now, our votes are divided between 3-4 players. Time is running out.

@Loose, why are you voting Pixar?

Surely you also saw that I said I would unvote pmc after he acknowledged the reads I made so far? My vote was largely omgus and I think the slot has value and is solveable later in the game for sure.

But my defense to pmc surely now ties me together to him