Halloween Hollows [Quenched]

[yeti_c]

You're going to run into trouble coding up "adjacent" bonuses...

I would suggest removing that - or you're gonna come across a shit load of combinations that will need negative modifiers and so forth.

C.

[cairnswk]

You're going to run into trouble coding up "adjacent" bonuses...

I would suggest removing that - or you're gonna come across a shit load of combinations that will need negative modifiers and so forth.

C.

OK, but have you any other suggestions.

My original idea was that the spider owned the web and could bombard all web territories but only attack those bordering blackwidow roost.

[yeti_c]

You're going to run into trouble coding up "adjacent" bonuses...

I would suggest removing that - or you're gonna come across a shit load of combinations that will need negative modifiers and so forth.

C.

OK, but have you any other suggestions.

My original idea was that the spider owned the web and could bombard all web territories but only attack those bordering blackwidow roost.

Simply have it as "spider + every X territory = +Y"

Much easier to code but would also be easier to obtain - so may need to bump the spider a few more neutrals.

C.

[cairnswk]

You're going to run into trouble coding up "adjacent" bonuses...

I would suggest removing that - or you're gonna come across a shit load of combinations that will need negative modifiers and so forth.

C.

Actually, you must have been looking at the wrong images, because i had already changed this in this Version 21 which was at the bottom of the previous page.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[/quote]

[edbeard]

when did it become 4 territories?

I think 3 is good. I think there's only 22 web territories.

if I need to hold 8 just to get a +2 (plus the 1 autodeploy), it feels almost not worth it. I realize it'll be quite powerful in 1v1 games but I think the 5 neutrals cancel this out.

6 territories for a +2 and 9 for a +3 seems a lot better to me. Imagine having to hold 12 to get a +3. that seems like way too many to make this useful

[Kaplowitz]

"Fences" looks like Pences

[cairnswk]

"Fences" looks like Pences

Does a bit doesn't it, but at least you got the gist of it.

when did it become 4 territories?

When i changed it to 4.

I think 3 is good. I think there's only 22 web territories.

if I need to hold 8 just to get a +2 (plus the 1 autodeploy), it feels almost not worth it. I realize it'll be quite powerful in 1v1 games but I think the 5 neutrals cancel this out.

6 territories for a +2 and 9 for a +3 seems a lot better to me. Imagine having to hold 12 to get a +3. that seems like way too many to make this useful

OK, let's talk.
Isn't 3 a little too loose on the combinations of what one can get the bonus for.
Any three of Animal Farm which has 6 terts, plus spider give +1
What happens when i have 4 Animal Farm & Spider, i get +1
Now there is that 4 tert, so do i get +4 for 4 combinations that the xml will create?

Perhaps C can assist here with the xml ?

[yeti_c]

OK, let's talk.
Isn't 3 a little too loose on the combinations of what one can get the bonus for.
Any three of Animal Farm which has 6 terts, plus spider give +1
What happens when i have 4 Animal Farm & Spider, i get +1
Now there is that 4 tert, so do i get +4 for 4 combinations that the xml will create?

Perhaps C can assist here with the xml ?

Not if you code the XML correctly.

You can very easily code it so that you get +1 for every 3.

C.

[cairnswk]

OK, let's talk.
Isn't 3 a little too loose on the combinations of what one can get the bonus for.
Any three of Animal Farm which has 6 terts, plus spider give +1
What happens when i have 4 Animal Farm & Spider, i get +1
Now there is that 4 tert, so do i get +4 for 4 combinations that the xml will create?

Perhaps C can assist here with the xml ?

Not if you code the XML correctly.

You can very easily code it so that you get +1 for every 3.

C.

Could you let me in on that easily coded secret please!

[yeti_c]

OK, let's talk.
Isn't 3 a little too loose on the combinations of what one can get the bonus for.
Any three of Animal Farm which has 6 terts, plus spider give +1
What happens when i have 4 Animal Farm & Spider, i get +1
Now there is that 4 tert, so do i get +4 for 4 combinations that the xml will create?

Perhaps C can assist here with the xml ?

Not if you code the XML correctly.

You can very easily code it so that you get +1 for every 3.

C.

Could you let me in on that easily coded secret please!

Sure - just use the <required> tags...

Essentially what you have here is the same as the gangs or guards bonuses from Supermax.

So what you need to do is...

Code: Select all

<!-- Helper continents -->
<continent>
  <name>Spider</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>Spider</territory>
  </components>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>4 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>4</required>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>8 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>8</required>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>12 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>12</required>
</continent>

.... - repeat until all lists are complete - ...

<!-- actual bonus continents -->
<continent>
  <name>Spider & 4 others</name>
  <bonus>2</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>4 others</continent>
  </components>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>Spider & 8 others</name>
  <bonus>4</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>8 others</continent>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>Spider & 4 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>Spider & 12 others</name>
  <bonus>4</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>8 others</continent>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>Spider & 8 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>


C.

------- Ignore the following until you understand above ---------

PS - note the helper continents can be tidied away further by using more of them... i.e.

Code: Select all

<continent>
  <name>Spider</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>Spider</territory>
  </components>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>4 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>4</required>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>8 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>8</required>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>12 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>12</required>
</continent>

.... - repeat until all lists are complete - ...

<continent>
  <name>Spider & 4 others</name>
  <bonus>2</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>4 others</continent>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>4 others</override>
    <override>Spider</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>Spider & 8 others</name>
  <bonus>4</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>8 others</continent>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>8 others</override>
    <override>Spider & 4 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>Spider & 12 others</name>
  <bonus>4</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>8 others</continent>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>12 others</override>
    <override>Spider & 8 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>


Or even further...

Code: Select all

<continent>
  <name>Spider</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>Spider</territory>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>4 others</override>
    <override>8 others</override>
    <override>12 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>4 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>4</required>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>8 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>8</required>
  <overrides>
    <override>4 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>12 others</name>
  <bonus>0</bonus>
  <components>
    <territory>...list of all territories</territory>
  </components>
  <required>12</required>
  <overrides>
    <override>8 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

.... - repeat until all lists are complete - ...

<continent>
  <name>Spider & 4 others</name>
  <bonus>2</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>4 others</continent>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>4 others</override>
    <override>Spider</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>Spider & 8 others</name>
  <bonus>4</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>8 others</continent>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>8 others</override>
    <override>Spider & 4 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>

<continent>
  <name>Spider & 12 others</name>
  <bonus>4</bonus>
  <components>
    <continent>spider</continent>
    <continent>8 others</continent>
  </components>
  <overrides>
    <override>12 others</override>
    <override>Spider & 8 others</override>
  </overrides>
</continent>


[cairnswk]

....

Sure - just use the <required> tags...

Essentially what you have here is the same as the gangs or guards bonuses from Supermax.

So what you need to do is...
....

You are simply brilliant!
Do you have an icon that can be included on that spider web? or do you wish to be?

[oaktown]

I know I'm a bit late on the spider discussion, but here's my two cents anyway:
By bringing the Spider's starting neutral down to just 5, it actually seems like a more attractive bonus early than late, because early in the game you're sure to have four and very likely to have eight territories strewn across all of those regions, and your opponents are going to be trying to carve out some corner for themselves and in no position to start whacking away at your random territories here and there.

But I also agree that since this is a smallish map, going all the way up to 15 takes one of the more interesting game features completely out of play until late. The way I see the Web bonus most often coming into play is mid-game, when a player has started in Animal Farm or Wizard's Ward, and taking the Web for an automatic next bonus is a nice next step.

Would you guys violently oppose taking Witches' Way out of the Spider Web? That would limit the web to regions that actually border the web, which to me makes more sense anyway, and it would make wrapping up the larger Spider Web bonuses more a matter of strategy and less a matter of simply having territories strewn across half of the map.

As for colors, I'm sitting on my downtown rooftop deck right now, 8:00pm, and I have to say the map looks much more fun in the dark. I'm fine with the colors in the map, and the thicker region borders help me tell where the divisions are, but again what I have trouble with are the text colors. Could you, instead of coloring the text, put black text against a small field of the color? Fields of color are much easier for us color-challenged folks to pick up than a line of color.

[laci_mae]

I think Witches Way can stay in the web without creating an unfair bonus situation. The most territories that anyone could possibly start out with would be 9 (I think. . . 28/3=9.33) meaning you get the standard 3 auto armies. The starting neutral number should be just high enough that it would take two turns to kill Spidey getting just the auto armies. That is, if I am given a territory adjacent to Spidey, and then I deploy my 3 starters there (total of 6 so far), I shouldn't be able to take down Spidey with those. So, if Spidey starts with 8 or 9, Witches Way can stay as is.

The map looks awesome by the way!

That's my 2 cents,
LMR

[edbeard]

Any way we can get a note in there that Wicked the Witch is part of Witches' Way?

I know it's implied based on the spider-web line but I don't think it'd be too ugly to put that note in the top right of the map.


you're going to have people complain about that territory if we don't have a note.

Or, perhaps make that territory NOT part of Witches' Way and give it a bonus ala the Spider. Or just some other different bonus.

[yeti_c]

....

Sure - just use the <required> tags...

Essentially what you have here is the same as the gangs or guards bonuses from Supermax.

So what you need to do is...
....

You are simply brilliant!
Do you have an icon that can be included on that spider web? or do you wish to be?

You *could* include the classic "Black widow" emblem on the back of the spider...



(Here's an example of it being used as a marketing logo - for clarity)


C.

[cairnswk]

I know I'm a bit late on the spider discussion, but here's my two cents anyway:
By bringing the Spider's starting neutral down to just 5, it actually seems like a more attractive bonus early than late, because early in the game you're sure to have four and very likely to have eight territories strewn across all of those regions, and your opponents are going to be trying to carve out some corner for themselves and in no position to start whacking away at your random territories here and there.

But I also agree that since this is a smallish map, going all the way up to 15 takes one of the more interesting game features completely out of play until late. The way I see the Web bonus most often coming into play is mid-game, when a player has started in Animal Farm or Wizard's Ward, and taking the Web for an automatic next bonus is a nice next step.

Would you guys violently oppose taking Witches' Way out of the Spider Web? That would limit the web to regions that actually border the web, which to me makes more sense anyway, and it would make wrapping up the larger Spider Web bonuses more a matter of strategy and less a matter of simply having territories strewn across half of the map.

Well yes i would because that was not the concept of that piece of sloping land, the concept was to for the spider web to cover that piece of land on the horizontal plain up to the fence of Tombstone Terrace.
And beside that would make be more stuff to read and there is already enough of that.

As for colors, I'm sitting on my downtown rooftop deck right now, 8:00pm, and I have to say the map looks much more fun in the dark. I'm fine with the colors in the map, and the thicker region borders help me tell where the divisions are, but again what I have trouble with are the text colors. Could you, instead of coloring the text, put black text against a small field of the color? Fields of color are much easier for us color-challenged folks to pick up than a line of color.

Yes i will look at that for you.

I think Witches Way can stay in the web without creating an unfair bonus situation. The most territories that anyone could possibly start out with would be 9 (I think. . . 28/3=9.33) meaning you get the standard 3 auto armies. The starting neutral number should be just high enough that it would take two turns to kill Spidey getting just the auto armies. That is, if I am given a territory adjacent to Spidey, and then I deploy my 3 starters there (total of 6 so far), I shouldn't be able to take down Spidey with those. So, if Spidey starts with 8 or 9, Witches Way can stay as is.

The map looks awesome by the way!

That's my 2 cents,
LMR

Good solution and explanation, I will make that neutral 9 (just coz i like the number 9).

Any way we can get a note in there that Wicked the Witch is part of Witches' Way?
I know it's implied based on the spider-web line but I don't think it'd be too ugly to put that note in the top right of the map.
you're going to have people complain about that territory if we don't have a note.
Or, perhaps make that territory NOT part of Witches' Way and give it a bonus ala the Spider. Or just some other different bonus.

Ah edbeard.....the legend already says

The larger spider-web includes Animal Farm, Death's Door, Wizard
Ward, and Witches' Way but NOT Wicked The Witch

Version 22 Small and Large.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[cairnswk]

The next question of course......will the mods and Andy "fast-track" this through Foundry and Final Forge in-time to be ready for Halloween in just over a month's time?

[cairnswk]

One thing i noticed now is that one cannot tell exactly if Fallow Fields borders Tombstone Terrace because of the fence post shadow.

[edbeard]

Any way we can get a note in there that Wicked the Witch is part of Witches' Way?
I know it's implied based on the spider-web line but I don't think it'd be too ugly to put that note in the top right of the map.
you're going to have people complain about that territory if we don't have a note.
Or, perhaps make that territory NOT part of Witches' Way and give it a bonus ala the Spider. Or just some other different bonus.

Ah edbeard.....the legend already says

The larger spider-web includes Animal Farm, Death's Door, Wizard
Ward, and Witches' Way but NOT Wicked The Witch

I do realise that but keep in mind the red bolded words above. it will happen and people will complain and say this was a severe oversight. people need to be expressly told things like this. no need to respond again as I believe you're fully informed to my view.


In terms of gameplay, I find 9 neutrals to be way too high to make the spider-web a viable strategy. 5 was a good number. you need a minimum of 3 rolls to take it over. not an easy task. 9 neutrals means I need something like 15 (most likely more) to really think about taking it over (let alone holding it afterwards). for the relatively small bonus I'll get from it, it won't be worth it. sure if I have 9 territories in the web, I'll get 3 armies plus the autodeploy. that really isn't that much. plus someone can just attack a bunch of my web territories.

[cairnswk]

...
I do realise that but keep in mind the red bolded words above. it will happen and people will complain and say this was a severe oversight. people need to be expressly told things like this. no need to respond again as I believe you're fully informed to my view.

yes...and i think you'll find that i re-worded the legend to give you exactly what you want.

In terms of gameplay, I find 9 neutrals to be way too high to make the spider-web a viable strategy. 5 was a good number. you need a minimum of 3 rolls to take it over. not an easy task. 9 neutrals means I need something like 15 (most likely more) to really think about taking it over (let alone holding it afterwards). for the relatively small bonus I'll get from it, it won't be worth it. sure if I have 9 territories in the web, I'll get 3 armies plus the autodeploy. that really isn't that much. plus someone can just attack a bunch of my web territories.

i disagree here, and more agree with oaktown and LMR....i think 9 is a good number to conquer in this instance...but let's see if others have anything to say.
And don't forget that you may not be the only one who wants this tert....others will possibly deplete those neutrals in order to gain some advantage.

[cairnswk]

i feel the need for a necro bump!

[Androidz]

i feel the need for a necro bump!

And i feel a need for a quench

I want to play this before haloween:P


One thing cairn, The Wishing pouch + the deadman danceing terrotorie seem so cramped due the shadows and such. Could you atleast try to make the shadow go above the army circle. I think thats what makes it look cramped as the army circle seem to be covered. The Wishing pouch is really "cramped" (And i think haveing the shadows go a bit up is more natural as i dont think the whiches hat will cast a shadow where the tops is turning down or am i wrong?)

And one more thing the dragon snout terretorie seem a bit odd for me as i can see a head of a dragon but realisticly you only be able to see on red eye? As the other will be on the other side? And i think the terretorie will look better if you make just one eye starting towards the ocean. as it looks a bit odd now.

[Night Strike]

Hurry up and finish because I'm calling dibs on a Halloween tournament.

[cairnswk]

i feel the need for a necro bump!

And i feel a need for a quench

I want to play this before haloween:P


One thing cairn, The Wishing pouch + the deadman danceing terrotorie seem so cramped due the shadows and such. Could you atleast try to make the shadow go above the army circle. I think thats what makes it look cramped as the army circle seem to be covered. The Wishing pouch is really "cramped" (And i think haveing the shadows go a bit up is more natural as i dont think the whiches hat will cast a shadow where the tops is turning down or am i wrong?)

And one more thing the dragon snout terretorie seem a bit odd for me as i can see a head of a dragon but realisticly you only be able to see on red eye? As the other will be on the other side? And i think the terretorie will look better if you make just one eye starting towards the ocean. as it looks a bit odd now.

I'm not worried about the dragon head, it doesn't look too out of place.

The shadows do cause some issues there, and i will try to move them about, but don't hold your breathe.

Hurry up and finish because I'm calling dibs on a Halloween tournament.

What!!! i thought that was my option as mapmaker....we'll try for you

[Androidz]

i feel the need for a necro bump!

And i feel a need for a quench

I want to play this before haloween:P


One thing cairn, The Wishing pouch + the deadman danceing terrotorie seem so cramped due the shadows and such. Could you atleast try to make the shadow go above the army circle. I think thats what makes it look cramped as the army circle seem to be covered. The Wishing pouch is really "cramped" (And i think haveing the shadows go a bit up is more natural as i dont think the whiches hat will cast a shadow where the tops is turning down or am i wrong?)

And one more thing the dragon snout terretorie seem a bit odd for me as i can see a head of a dragon but realisticly you only be able to see on red eye? As the other will be on the other side? And i think the terretorie will look better if you make just one eye starting towards the ocean. as it looks a bit odd now.

I'm not worried about the dragon head, it doesn't look too out of place.

The shadows do cause some issues there, and i will try to move them about, but don't hold your breathe.

Hurry up and finish because I'm calling dibs on a Halloween tournament.

What!!! i thought that was my option as mapmaker....we'll try for you

kk m8=9

But i don't think its out of place just think its odd that it have 2 eyes when we only should be able to see one relasticly.