Conquer Club

t.e.c wrote:ah ok, i was a little confused because in the legend you have "afterlife bonuses", "afterlife bonuses only given if you hold the relevant tomb region" and "extra bonus for holding eternal life".

it's a little ambiguous. it could mean that you get the +5 bonus for eternal life just for holding it, or that you get it only if you are holding the relevant tomb region. maybe it would be better to have the eternal life bonus seperate from the afterlife bonuses? or would that confuse things even more.

hope that makes sense!

oh yes t.e.c. ...what u guys say makes perfect sense and I agree, holding it at start could mean victory. i was thinking that one would have to hold a tomb region plus its afterlife bonus and then the eternal life circle to get the eternal life bonus.

my challenge is how does one do that in xml....is it possible?

What if you lower eternal life a point or two, and only if you hold the entire afterlife?

Gozar wrote:What if you lower eternal life a point or two, and only if you hold the entire afterlife?

Thanks Gozar, that is our standard option....i wanted to see if we could do something special here...I have someone checking out the xml options to see what can be done...I guess watch this space.
But please if you think of any other options, let me know...and I know you will.

Gozar wrote:What if you lower eternal life a point or two, and only if you hold the entire afterlife?

Gozar, my special was not doable with xml.
Therefore I have developed the bonuses as per map below, but i have yet to calulate the bonuses properly using the spreadsheet.
What do you think?
Pls note that fonts are changed temporarily so that it is understandable.
This may be rectified later after gameplay has been re-solved.

cairnswk wrote:

Gozar wrote:What if you lower eternal life a point or two, and only if you hold the entire afterlife?

Gozar, my special was not doable with xml.
Therefore I have developed the bonuses as per map below, but i have yet to calulate the bonuses properly using the spreadsheet.
What do you think?
Pls note that fonts are changed temporarily so that it is understandable.
This may be rectified later after gameplay has been re-solved.

you don't have to use that spread sheet to get the bonuses right.
bonuses should be initially appointed as the result of experience and then tweaked through live play.

that spreadsheet is very good and in many cases the bonuses are right but it has a major flaw. it does not quantify tactics.

for example a continent could have extremely important strategic value or it could be a place that many people travel through it to get to other parts.

and most of all the the biggest flaw is that the spread sheet does not consider the map as a whole but rather as independent continents.

let's take as an example the image below. we have 2 continents. brown and blue. using the spreadsheet i get a bonus of 6 for each continent but when you look at the image you can see that that bonus can be protected by only one terit. the red one. now imagine in a doubles or triples game that would be a really really easy thing to take and hold. is it ok to get a bonus of 12 for just one border? i don't think so. but the spreadsheet does.

Thanks DiM for that tutorial....i understadn what is being said. I still want to check what the spreadsheet does with bonuses for this map and then discuss.

cairnswk wrote:Thanks DiM for that tutorial....i understadn what is being said. I still want to check what the spreadsheet does with bonuses for this map and then discuss.

yes the spreadsheet is a good start but don't hold on those results with your teeth. feel free to change them.

DiM wrote:

cairnswk wrote:Thanks DiM for that tutorial....i understadn what is being said. I still want to check what the spreadsheet does with bonuses for this map and then discuss.

yes the spreadsheet is a good start but don't hold on those results with your teeth. feel free to change them.

sure of course....also some may have input in that regard.

ok, let me see if im understanding this correctly.

the scarabs can attack other scarabs and the region underworlds, one way.
the underworld attacks ths afterlife.
the afterlife attacks eternal life.
eternal life attacks the afterlife.
the afterlife attacks the underworld.
the underworld can only attack the territories with the eye, but not the scarabs.

there is a small bonus for holding all of the tombs in a given region, and its respective underworld. however one does not have to hold the robbers of the region.
there is a higher bonus for holding the previous in addition to the regions respective afterlife.
the highest tier bonus is obtained by holding the previous in addition to eternal life.


i think i like this gameplay. its very unique, and takes some getting used too, and im a lot better at critiquing graphics than gameplay . but i think i like it. the only thing im not sure about is having to enter and exit the underworld from different places. but i think the biggest problem is simply making a somewhat complicated gameplay quickly understood through the legend. once the directions are more clearly defined the one-way concept may be the best thing about this map.

one thing which may help is to somehow include the region letters in the actual map, not just the legend, so you dont have to constantly refer back and forth. also maybe put the letters corresponding to the particular afterlife symbols on the legend (for example: an "A" next to Maat).

i really like this map and its novelty- i dont think it would become one of my regulars, but that doesnt in any way mean its not worth making.

Enigma wrote:ok, let me see if im understanding this correctly.

the scarabs can attack other scarabs and the region underworlds, one way.
the underworld attacks ths afterlife.
the afterlife attacks eternal life.
eternal life attacks the afterlife.
the afterlife attacks the underworld.
the underworld can only attack the territories with the eye, but not the scarabs.

u got it! actually all territories in the afterlife will be attackable from each other with borders.

there is a small bonus for holding all of the tombs in a given region, and its respective underworld. however one does not have to hold the robbers of the region.

no, robbers are parts of the regions, therefore they have to be held also to get the tomb region bonus. the tombs of a region are attached to robber robber colours.

there is a higher bonus for holding the previous in addition to the regions respective afterlife.

yes

the highest tier bonus is obtained by holding the previous in addition to eternal life.

yes

i think i like this gameplay.

phew...good!

it takesome getting used too, and im a lot better at critiquing graphics than gameplay . but i think i like it. the only thing im not sure about is having to enter and exit the underworld from different places. but i think the biggest problem is simply making a somewhat complicated gameplay quickly understood through the legend. once the directions are more clearly defined the one-way concept may be the best thing about this map.

yes i agree Enigma, and I'm sure going to look for your support there. Also don't forget that when the game is underway, your options for attack and fortifications will show as illegal if you make a wrong move.

one thing which may help is to somehow include the region letters in the actual map, not just the legend, so you dont have to constantly refer back and forth. also maybe put the letters corresponding to the particular afterlife symbols on the legend (for example: an "A" next to Maat).

good idea...next version will be done.

i really like this map and its novelty- i dont think it would become one of my regulars, but that doesnt in any way mean its not worth making.

Thanks for taking such a deep look at this. I do appreciate everyone's input.

cairnswk wrote:

Enigma wrote:one thing which may help is to somehow include the region letters in the actual map, not just the legend, so you dont have to constantly refer back and forth. also maybe put the letters corresponding to the particular afterlife symbols on the legend (for example: an "A" next to Maat).

good idea...next version will be done.

Suggestion implemented below, Enigma.

I think this is looking quite nice now. The bonuses aren't that complex once you give it a read over.

Only comment I can make now would be to move the Tjuyu title up a bit so in is not confused with Ramesses XI, and Hatshepsut a little to the right under its tomb more. Something to consider.

Cheers

Gozar

Gozar wrote:I think this is looking quite nice now. The bonuses aren't that complex once you give it a read over.

Only comment I can make now would be to move the Tjuyu title up a bit so in is not confused with Ramesses XI, and Hatshepsut a little to the right under its tomb more. Something to consider.

Cheers

Gozar

Thanks Gozar...done in the map above V9

Gozar...can you think of any other way to state the gameplay more succinctly or in a better manner?

Also

I don't know how hammered out the bonues are, but you might want to raise the tomb bonuses by one each. It seems a lot of fighting is going to happen through the afterlife, so having a little extra to defend your tombs could go a long way.

Gozar wrote:Also

I don't know how hammered out the bonues are, but you might want to raise the tomb bonuses by one each. It seems a lot of fighting is going to happen through the afterlife, so having a little extra to defend your tombs could go a long way.

Yes appreciate what you are saying. I have been going through the spreadsheet trying to ascertain who can attack who and who is defending from what neighbour, and BOY OH BOY, it is a minefield.

Because tomb a territories can also be attacked by the scarab and amente, and also include amente A and Maat, it is looking like tomb a might have 4 bonuses.

Haven't got to the rest yet, have to do one by one and then rest - it is really a task this one.

Do you have any other thoughts on what bonuses should be applied?

I see what you say about a minefield. Attacks seem to be coming from everywhere. Four might do it for the tomb bonuses, but I think you have it right now by having Tomb B be 1 less than the rest.

This leaves Afterlife as the "Asia", if you will, of this map, but with small bonuses that can be gained without taking the whole.

i dont understand who attacks who on this map...

ParadiceCity9 wrote:i dont understand who attacks who on this map...

Thanks for your post ParadiceCity9....this one is an acquired taste version LOL.

OK...here's the go, this will all come out in the gameplay options for attack and fortifications when gameplay starts.

1. kings can attack kings if they have a scarab (beetle) attached (both ways)
2. any king can attack a neighbouring robber and vice versa. (bothways)
3. robbers can attack neighbouring robbers. (bothways)
4. kings with scarabs can attack any amente (underworld), i.e. if you hold Ramesses IV (with scarab) you can attack Amente A,B,C,D,E (one-way)
5. Anything in the Afterlife can attack any neighbour in the Afterlife (both ways)
6. Amente A,B,C,D,E can attack any Robber with the Eye of Horus (one-way)
This makes lots of options for gameplay.

Do you have a handle on the bonuses?

Any feedback on this map?

i don't like the afterlife bit...

spinwizard wrote:i don't like the afterlife bit...

Fair enough....Spinwizard.
EDIT\\ but what is it about the afterlife you dont like...the whole thing or parts of it, or its design?

btw...what is happening in france?

so any news on this one? some feedback some updates?

*in the legend after the third info there's a line of blank space. i belive it's because of the eye of horus icon. do something about it.
*title
*in the robber terits the eye of horus should be right next to the robber title. like in robber4. because in robber 2 it's hard to spot. or robber 3 or 6

DiM wrote:so any news on this one? some feedback some updates?

*in the legend after the third info there's a line of blank space. i belive it's because of the eye of horus icon. do something about it.
*title
*in the robber terits the eye of horus should be right next to the robber title. like in robber4. because in robber 2 it's hard to spot. or robber 3 or 6

DiM...changes as requested above...I didn't do too much with the title as I am still unsure what to do with that...any sugggestions well explained would be welcome.

about the title.

instead of the 2 anubis holding the afterlife, make them hold a papyrus with the title.

or do something like this.