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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!28sept page 1-10[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:39 pm

qwert wrote:
ruben
Well Great Britain and France should be two separate regions. Even Italy was a Western Ally but you put it separate so those two countries should be separated as well.

I suggest separating them and giving them both a bonus. Cyprus can be part of Great Britain of course. You could also add Malta as part of the British Empire for an extra territory to spice up gameplay.

I all ready have conversation abouth cuprys,that will be inposible to be part of western allied bonus structures,so i create separate bonus for cuprys like British bases.
If i continue to create more and more small countries,then these will be bad,so i dont understand why is bad that Britain and France be same part of one bonuses,and i also will change a name,instead Western Allied will be-Hold France and Britain.
Maybe you dont notice that i have 6 countries in balkan who all independent but i put to be same bonuse value.


I did not understand much of what you said.

I said use Malta and Cyprus as additional territories for the British Empire region.

Make France a separate region and add Corsica as one of its territories.

Sorry but I think France and Britain as one region makes no sense at all.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!28sept page 1-10[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:59 pm

I dont understand why you insist on malta?
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!28sept page 1-10[IDEA STAMP]

Postby t-o-m on Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:05 pm

qwert wrote:I dont understand why you insist on malta?

I think it should be there - even if it's not a playable territory.

How about making a map of europe and leaving out the UK?
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!28sept page 1-10[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:25 am

I think it should be there - even if it's not a playable territory.

How about making a map of europe and leaving out the UK?

ridiculos
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!28sept page 1-10[IDEA STAMP]

Postby yeti_c on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:48 am

qwert wrote:
I think it should be there - even if it's not a playable territory.

How about making a map of europe and leaving out the UK?

ridiculos


Agreed.

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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!28sept page 1-10[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:29 am

new changes- i dont want to arguing abouth Britain france,so i will create complete two new country
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:53 pm

new major update,France and britain declare independents.
New territories
Corsica(part of France)
Naples
Sardinia
Sicilia(all Part of Italy)
#-o now i must change map in signature to.

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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby The Neon Peon on Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:16 pm

Are the seas part of any bonus? And why is Cyprus a capital? Even though you did not label it as one, you gave it the same bonus amount, I do not think that is the best for gameplay seeing as it is isolated from the main portions of the map.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:49 pm

The Neon Peon on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:16 am

Are the seas part of any bonus? And why is Cyprus a capital? Even though you did not label it as one, you gave it the same bonus amount, I do not think that is the best for gameplay seeing as it is isolated from the main portions of the map.


1.Like in all other maps when you have some territory who is not added in bonus box,then these mean that these is nonbonus territory,you dont figure these.
2. IF i look good legend Capitals is-PAris,Rome,Saint Petersburg,London,Vienna,Constantinople,Berlina and Bulgaria,so where you fond that Cyprus is Capital?
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Do you think that i create some apstract fiction map,i try to create historical maps, so its logical that cyprus is connected with grecce,because can not be connected with Britain(if you notice its write Cyprus-British Base) and its can not beconnected with Turkey.
Cyprus like base,can or can not need to have any bonuses,i just put no 1 to fill bonus box.
Everyone can give,i repeat,everyone cen give hes view of country bonus walue,because these is not final decision for bonus value.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby The Neon Peon on Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 pm

qwert wrote:2. IF i look good legend Capitals is-PAris,Rome,Saint Petersburg,London,Vienna,Constantinople,Berlina and Bulgaria,so where you fond that Cyprus is Capital?

My point was that you give all of the capitals a +1 bonus, and for some reason, you give it to Cyprus also. I know it is not a capital, but why does it have a bonus like it is one?
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:53 am

My point was that you give all of the capitals a +1 bonus, and for some reason, you give it to Cyprus also. I know it is not a capital, but why does it have a bonus like it is one?


its look that you dont understand what is what.
For each capital you get +1,and these is presented on map(territory Constantinople have close to icon +1,then Paris close to icon have +1,then London have +1,then Saint Petersburg have +1,Berlin have close to icon in territory +1,do i miss some capital). When you look Cyprus,do you se some icons and +1 close to cyprus? No
All these +1 bonuses for capitals is autodeploy.

Now you have down Continental bonuses-France ,Britain Italy, Rusian,German Austrohungarian,Balkan,Turkey,and they all have bonuses if you hold some country,and these bonuses is not autodeploy, in begining cyprus whas part of Britain,but these is quit imposible to hold britain and then i create separate country "Cyprus British Base" and give hem bonus 1 who people sugested.
Now i dont understand where you read that Cyprus is Capital?
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby WidowMakers on Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:46 am

qwert wrote:Now i don't understand where you read that Cyprus is Capital?
He is NOT saying it is a capital.

He is asking:
    -Why it gets the same bonuses as one? or
    -Why do the capitals AND Cyprus get +1 bonus? or
    -Why is Cyprus so special that it receives the same bonus as the capitals?

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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:14 am

by WidowMakers on Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:46 pm

qwert wrote:
Now i don't understand where you read that Cyprus is Capital?He is NOT saying it is a capital.

He is asking:

-Why it gets the same bonuses as one? or
-Why do the capitals AND Cyprus get +1 bonus? or
-Why is Cyprus so special that it receives the same bonus as the capitals?

WM

first hello,you dont be in mine topic for ages.

The Neon Peon on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:16 am
And why is Cyprus a capital?


Now i dont have any attention to move back and that reply all discusion abouth Western Allied,and debate abouth cyprus. Bonus for cyprus is sugestion from people,and its quit dificulty to understand when you just jump in last page and tell "Why cyprus get bonus 1"

What will hepend if tomorow some other guy jump and say, same thing,and dont know nothing abouth early process. You jump now,and probably will jump again for 3 month.
If i dont explane good what is capital bonuses and what is Country bonuses,then i dont know how to better explane.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!28sept page 1-10[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:43 pm

qwert wrote:I dont understand why you insist on malta?


First of all I was insisting on separating FRANCE from BRITAIN and making them 2 separate regions. I am sure you understood me cause you did the change in this last update. Thumbs up.

Second if there is Cyprus why shouldn't Malta be there? It was an important British colony in a strategic location in WW I although not as much as WW II. Also the reason why I want Malta to be there is pretty obvious really...I'm Maltese!
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:37 pm

First of all I was insisting on separating FRANCE from BRITAIN and making them 2 separate regions. I am sure you understood me cause you did the change in this last update. Thumbs up.

Second if there is Cyprus why shouldn't Malta be there? It was an important British colony in a strategic location in WW I although not as much as WW II. Also the reason why I want Malta to be there is pretty obvious really...I'm Maltese!

I hope that is now ok with BRitain and France.
Second i know that you are from malta,but i check what hepend in malta during wwI,and these isses used for recovering Wounded in front ,nothing else, if i look like that,then i can find many other issles who only use like hospitals. I think that Cyprus whas more importan-Military and strategy place,because its very close to ottoman empire. But we can continue discusion abouth malta on map. I know that Serbian army use Krf(small grecce issle)for recovering troops,maybe we can find more issles.

Seriously malta whas peaceful place during wwI,and i realy can not find any military action during war.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!28sept page 1-10[IDEA STAMP]

Postby lt_oddball on Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:42 am

qwert wrote:new changes- i dont want to arguing abouth Britain france,so i will create complete two new country


And heeeeey , just what I proposed somewhere in the beginnings of this map adventure :D :D :D :D

I was offline for some days.. good to see things turn the good way =D>
I have to read thru some messages, but this Malta thing can be left out of the map.. absolutely.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby TaCktiX on Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:03 am

This is a quibble, but here goes:

- Compared to the gorgeous shading on the edges of landmasses, the borders between territories looks a little bit on the pixellated side. Any chance of thickening them a bit to make it look better?

And I agree with the +1 on Cyprus, giving people a reason to actually go for it instead of ignoring its existence.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby lt_oddball on Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:05 am

why giving in to pressure to give Corsica a circle ?

Then why not Krete ?

I'll tell you why you should get rid of the Corsica circle (and indeed the circle ON the islands of Cyprus, Sardinia):
In those days (before paratroopers and long distance bombers) If a nation bordering a sea wants to invade another country at that sea he would FIRST have CONTROL over that sea ("sea superiority ;) ) then ship in his troops , sail over and bombard some enemy coastal area and make landfall.
So why in the world does anyone think that a French mainland player would stop at corsica and Sardinia if he can sail IMMEDIATELY over to the Italian mainland ?!?!? (assuming the Monaco pass is blocked, entrenched, etc..)

So in order to recreate that strategic brilliance of the time) you should have one (or if you like more; the spawn circles) circle(s) in the SEA between France and Italy (let's call it mediteranean sea), one circle in the SEA between Italy and Greece (which is now the Mediteranean Sea..ok..but call it Thyranean Sea), and one circle between Greece and Turkey (call it .. ? sea).
To avoid confusion have these circles NOT planted ON the Islands but near these islands of Corsica, Sardinia, Malta, Krete, Rhodos, Cyprus..and all in plain grey colour.


Sicily may be the only exception as it IS quite a large and meaningful Island (even in those days) and should have its own LAND circle on the Island.

Then you have a fixed concept regarding sea/naval routes
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:57 am

by lt_oddball on Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:05 pm

why giving in to pressure to give Corsica a circle ?

Then why not Krete ?

I'll tell you why you should get rid of the Corsica circle (and indeed the circle ON the islands of Cyprus, Sardinia):
In those days (before paratroopers and long distance bombers) If a nation bordering a sea wants to invade another country at that sea he would FIRST have CONTROL over that sea ("sea superiority ) then ship in his troops , sail over and bombard some enemy coastal area and make landfall.
So why in the world does anyone think that a French mainland player would stop at corsica and Sardinia if he can sail IMMEDIATELY over to the Italian mainland ?!?!? (assuming the Monaco pass is blocked, entrenched, etc..)

So in order to recreate that strategic brilliance of the time) you should have one (or if you like more; the spawn circles) circle(s) in the SEA between France and Italy (let's call it mediteranean sea), one circle in the SEA between Italy and Greece (which is now the Mediteranean Sea..ok..but call it Thyranean Sea), and one circle between Greece and Turkey (call it .. ? sea).
To avoid confusion have these circles NOT planted ON the Islands but near these islands of Corsica, Sardinia, Malta, Krete, Rhodos, Cyprus..and all in plain grey colour.


Sicily may be the only exception as it IS quite a large and meaningful Island (even in those days) and should have its own LAND circle on the Island.

Then you have a fixed concept regarding sea/naval routes

I must say that im confused with all these sea,lands routes,can you give me some visual look on these idea(take some maps of europe and put marks how you think where to put circles and where to remove),these will be best for me to understand.

by TaCktiX on Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:03 pm

This is a quibble, but here goes:

- Compared to the gorgeous shading on the edges of landmasses, the borders between territories looks a little bit on the pixellated side. Any chance of thickening them a bit to make it look better?

And I agree with the +1 on Cyprus, giving people a reason to actually go for it instead of ignoring its existence.
This is a quibble, but here goes:

- Compared to the gorgeous shading on the edges of landmasses, the borders between territories looks a little bit on the pixellated side. Any chance of thickening them a bit to make it look better?

And I agree with the +1 on Cyprus, giving people a reason to actually go for it instead of ignoring its existence.

Where is pixelaated,please need location.
what quibble means?
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:33 pm

qwert wrote:
First of all I was insisting on separating FRANCE from BRITAIN and making them 2 separate regions. I am sure you understood me cause you did the change in this last update. Thumbs up.

Second if there is Cyprus why shouldn't Malta be there? It was an important British colony in a strategic location in WW I although not as much as WW II. Also the reason why I want Malta to be there is pretty obvious really...I'm Maltese!

I hope that is now ok with BRitain and France.
Second i know that you are from malta,but i check what hepend in malta during wwI,and these isses used for recovering Wounded in front ,nothing else, if i look like that,then i can find many other issles who only use like hospitals. I think that Cyprus whas more importan-Military and strategy place,because its very close to ottoman empire. But we can continue discusion abouth malta on map. I know that Serbian army use Krf(small grecce issle)for recovering troops,maybe we can find more issles.

Seriously malta whas peaceful place during wwI,and i realy can not find any military action during war.


Granted...but Sardinia was also peaceful and it's still there! ;)

Anyway great job so far. I like how this map is shaping up.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:37 pm

lt_oddball wrote:why giving in to pressure to give Corsica a circle ?

Then why not Krete ?

I'll tell you why you should get rid of the Corsica circle (and indeed the circle ON the islands of Cyprus, Sardinia):
In those days (before paratroopers and long distance bombers) If a nation bordering a sea wants to invade another country at that sea he would FIRST have CONTROL over that sea ("sea superiority ;) ) then ship in his troops , sail over and bombard some enemy coastal area and make landfall.
So why in the world does anyone think that a French mainland player would stop at corsica and Sardinia if he can sail IMMEDIATELY over to the Italian mainland ?!?!? (assuming the Monaco pass is blocked, entrenched, etc..)

So in order to recreate that strategic brilliance of the time) you should have one (or if you like more; the spawn circles) circle(s) in the SEA between France and Italy (let's call it mediteranean sea), one circle in the SEA between Italy and Greece (which is now the Mediteranean Sea..ok..but call it Thyranean Sea), and one circle between Greece and Turkey (call it .. ? sea).
To avoid confusion have these circles NOT planted ON the Islands but near these islands of Corsica, Sardinia, Malta, Krete, Rhodos, Cyprus..and all in plain grey colour.


Sicily may be the only exception as it IS quite a large and meaningful Island (even in those days) and should have its own LAND circle on the Island.

Then you have a fixed concept regarding sea/naval routes


It's also meant to be playable...and fun to play on as a map. It doesn't have to be strategically 100% accurate if this detracts from gameplay.

I think qwert has got the territories right so far. But for me to be satisfied I demand that he puts Malta on the map at least as a non playable area because it's like it doesn't exist in this map! :)
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:42 pm

answer to it oddbal-i need territory to have some logical reason why i have some countries,i can not count sea to be part of some countries,these will be very very confusing for people,and then i will need to explane people that these sea is a part of some countries.
If you look Italy they have only 5 territory,and you want to down to 4. Mediteranean sea is in right place,and i dont want to eliminate two territory to add one no bonuses territory(thyranean sea).
Sea betwen Grecce and turkey exist and hes name is Aegean sea,but i have two reason why to not put,first historicaly they not fight so much,and second i dont have space to put circle and expecialy name in these place.
You very good explane strategic situation with isles Corsica, Sardinia, Malta, Krete, Rhodos, Cyprus,but you must understand that limited size dont alove all these to be realized.
all ready now map have 52 territory,and down part of map is all ready cramped a little,so adding new 3 will be to much for map. I hope that you understand present situation. I will be first for all importan place to add in map,but unfortunatly its not possible,and i all ready have map who in long proces,because i want to put so many importan places(WWII EUROPE).
We realy must have some limits,because its not possible to add all importan territory.
ruben
I think qwert has got the territories right so far. But for me to be satisfied I demand that he puts Malta on the map at least as a non playable area because it's like it doesn't exist in this map!

I will se what i can do with that,ok.
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby oaktown on Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:44 pm

Just stopping by to say I'll give this map a long look within the next 24 hours, qwerty!
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby Qwert on Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:49 am

by oaktown on Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:44 am

Just stopping by to say I'll give this map a long look within the next 24 hours, qwerty!

:x dont call me qwerty,these is name some other player!!Im qwert,dont forget that!
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Re: EUROPE 1914-Update Major change!29sept page 1-11[IDEA STAMP]

Postby oaktown on Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:01 pm

In my humble opinion, the legends and gameplay info on the map is now MUCH easier to understand - nice improvements there. Now as for that empty box... ;)

I agree with your wish to not add any more islands to the sea - it will just get messy.

But I also share the concerns about Cyprus being a +1, sort of. I don't think you should get rid of the +1 completely, because I think that it is fine to give a +1 to a territory like Cyprus that is strategically and historically significant. However, on this map it does NOT seem to be strategically important - the only other territory it can attack is Greece, which means that the player that starts with Cyprus or the player that starts with Greece - whoever goes first - will be able to control that territory, and then it will be very easy to defend. And if the player who starts with Cyprus goes first, its an unfair advantage.

I have two suggestions that would make the +1 for Cyprus better:
1. Make it a starting neutral, like the capitals, and give it at least one more attack route; I would like to see it be connected to both Smyrna and the Mediterranean. That way two or three players would have a chance to go after it instead of just 1. Or...
2. Since you have listed Cyprus as a British Base, tie the Cyprus bonus in with the UK bonus; you could either say that the UK is a +2, or a +3 with Cyprus, or you could say that Cyprus PLUS London is a +1 bonus. And I would still add one more attack route to Cyprus, so that the UK player would have at least two possible ways to get there.

Adding a route from Cyprus to Smyrna would probably make the red area a +4, which would be fine considering the other bonuses on this map.

Visually my biggest concern is the way the small map is peeling away from the main map; I think I know what you're trying to do, but something is off. Some parts are smooth, some are pixely; some are sharp, some are fuzzy.

qwert wrote:dont call me qwerty,these is name some other player!!Im qwert,dont forget that!

Don't worry, qwert, your name is unforgettable! :D
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