[CC12] R3: FALL (17) vs S&M (29) - S&M Wins - Final 12/8/22

[josko.ri]

viewtopic.php?f=441&t=238535

In the above link, the other semifinals Ascension vs Atlantis explicitly mention in rules that both home and away games have 1 week deadline to be filled.

In our quarterfinals vs TOFU, the rule was not explicitly mentioned but in set 2 both home and away was filled by both clans just before the deadline.

It seems that sitewise there is practice to fill both home and away games by the same deadline as that are already four clans A, ATL, TOFU and S&M (possibly more) who are actively using it, at least in CCup (Clan League rules, for instance, explicitly mention that home games must be filles upon creation).

So I dont know where did FALL got the idea from that the rule is different.

[iAmCaffeine]

In the above link, the other semifinals Ascension vs Atlantis explicitly mention in rules that both home and away games have 1 week deadline to be filled.

pretty sure this is the case for every war i personally have organised too

for aeternus/ascension, icon and awol

thought it was a sitewide thing lol

[GoranZ]

Terms of War

Contacts:

FALL
Goranz
mc05025

S&M
Josko.ri
fishydance


Layout:
Best of 55, 2 Sets + Tie Breaker

Each clan sends 9 Quadruples, 9 triples, 9 doubles
Tie Breaker: Triples on Classic, sunny, chained, no spoils

Rules:
Only game types allowed are "Teams" (Polymorphic is not considered a team game)
All games must have automatic initial troop deploy (no manual)
All games must be sequential (no freestyle)
All games must have 24 hour round length (no speed)
All spoils are allowed including zombie spoils
All forts are allowed including "no forts"
There will be 30 round limit on all triples and quad trench games and a 50 round limit on doubles trench games
Each map can only be used twice per clan per clan war but can only be used once per game type (dubs/trips/quads)
Beta maps are not allowed
Each clan will pick the map and settings for exactly half of the games
Games will be exchanged in 2 sets
12 Hour Fog Rule will be in effect (Gentleman's/Women's fog rule in effect, no penalty if broken)
New settings that are implemented after the start of the Cup will be excluded from wars
Tiebreaker not included in maximum game count

Schedule:
Set1:
All games exchanged by Sunday September 4, 23.59 CCT
All invites sent by Sunday September 11, 23.59 CCT
4 dubs
5 trips
5 quads

Set2:
All games exchanged by Sunday September 11, 23.59 CCT
All invites sent by Saturday September 17, 23.59 CCT, so that all the games be filled by Sunday September 18 deadline
5 dubs
4 trips
4 quads
Tie-breaker


Link to War Page

Set 1: September 4

Set 2: September 11

Tie-Breaker:

IDK why are you quoting this when there were numerous changes via messages?


(Message Sent: 05 Sep 2022 08:49)

I can follow up with our home games by Wednesday 23:59 CCT

(Message Sent: 07 Sep 2022 07:13)

I would be grateful if you allow me slight extension of set 1 deadline for 12 more hours.
Previous deadline: Wednesday 23:59 pm CCT
New deadline: Thursday 11:59 am CCT

(Message Sent: 08 Sep 2022 08:24)

My next steps are as follows:
By Friday 23:59 pm CCT: invite all players to home set 1

[GoranZ]

In my past experience playing with you, no one was allowed their own opinions, instead, you do what you say without argument.

No supersize... He was telling me when I should do the planning for FALL, although I was left with only 1 week out of 6 weeks period.

It seems that sitewise there is practice to fill both home and away games by the same deadline as that are already four clans A, ATL, TOFU and S&M (possibly more) who are actively using it, at least in CCup (Clan League rules, for instance, explicitly mention that home games must be filles upon creation).

So I dont know where did FALL got the idea from that the rule is different.

Its not the rule, its the fair play(you don't practice it). In case of your clan away teams from FALL were waiting for home teams in Round 2.
There is no explicit rule that home teams should join first but it is expected, after all its their home field. And what is the reason for not filling home games after they are created? You most certainly know who will play.

In the past on this subject there were different decisions by Clan Dept, but back then it was different Clan Dept Head.

From todays perspective, why did S&M joined the games when they did? So they will all start when you personally wanted, in both rounds, for all games.

Its our mistake that we agreed on your request of three weeks of delay for R1 and two weeks for R2. Don't bother asking something in the future, we will use the defaults. I recommend every clan to do the same with S&M.

[josko.ri]

Game 21954230 rousseau72 5 minutes left in antarctica and slightly more time in few other games.

[josko.ri]

It seems that sitewise there is practice to fill both home and away games by the same deadline as that are already four clans A, ATL, TOFU and S&M (possibly more) who are actively using it, at least in CCup (Clan League rules, for instance, explicitly mention that home games must be filles upon creation).

So I dont know where did FALL got the idea from that the rule is different.

Its not the rule, its the fair play(you don't practice it). In case of your clan away teams from FALL were waiting for home teams in Round 2.
There is no explicit rule that home teams should join first but it is expected, after all its their home field. And what is the reason for not filling home games after they are created? You most certainly know who will play.

In the past on this subject there were different decisions by Clan Dept, but back then it was different Clan Dept Head.

From todays perspective, why did S&M joined the games when they did? So they will all start when you personally wanted, in both rounds, for all games.

I was about to answer your question, but since you already provided an answer to the question that you asked yourself then there was no really need to do it from my side. I would be happy to have a student like you, so much proactive that he asks and simultaneously answers his own question

[josko.ri]

https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=21957655 Kaskavel 8 minutes left in eurasia

[Doc_Brown]

It seems that sitewise there is practice to fill both home and away games by the same deadline as that are already four clans A, ATL, TOFU and S&M (possibly more) who are actively using it, at least in CCup (Clan League rules, for instance, explicitly mention that home games must be filles upon creation).

So I dont know where did FALL got the idea from that the rule is different.

Its not the rule, its the fair play(you don't practice it). In case of your clan away teams from FALL were waiting for home teams in Round 2.
There is no explicit rule that home teams should join first but it is expected, after all its their home field.

In the vast majority of TOFU wars, the exchange was either a list of games/settings, or a list of fully created games. Both home and away teams had to join by the same date. Most clans were perfectly happy with that arrangement. Of all the wars I organized, FALL was the only clan that got upset about our home teams not joining the home games right away.

[IcePack]

It seems that sitewise there is practice to fill both home and away games by the same deadline as that are already four clans A, ATL, TOFU and S&M (possibly more) who are actively using it, at least in CCup (Clan League rules, for instance, explicitly mention that home games must be filles upon creation).

So I dont know where did FALL got the idea from that the rule is different.

Its not the rule, its the fair play(you don't practice it). In case of your clan away teams from FALL were waiting for home teams in Round 2.
There is no explicit rule that home teams should join first but it is expected, after all its their home field.

In the vast majority of TOFU wars, the exchange was either a list of games/settings, or a list of fully created games. Both home and away teams had to join by the same date. Most clans were perfectly happy with that arrangement. Of all the wars I organized, FALL was the only clan that got upset about our home teams not joining the home games right away.

It used to be in the rules Home team had to be fully joined.

When games are sent, they must already be created and fully joined by the home team. I should be copied in the private message sending each clans home games. Once home games are sent, the away clan has 5 full days to fill the games.

Along the way it was removed because of the 12 hour fog rule essentially implied the home team had to be joined first anyway (not the same time) and so it was duplicative.

Now with the “new 12 hr rule” vs the old 12 hr fog rule arguments, it’s definitely become less clear what is expected.

I believe in clan league the same / similar rules were applied that “game creation” didn’t simply mean creation, but invites had to be accepted (not just sent).

Definitely a more recent development of leaving games open without actual players to the home games. Can’t say I agree with it, but should be cleared up possibly. At the very least specify one way or the other

[Doc_Brown]

It used to be in the rules Home team had to be fully joined.

When games are sent, they must already be created and fully joined by the home team. I should be copied in the private message sending each clans home games. Once home games are sent, the away clan has 5 full days to fill the games.

Along the way it was removed because of the 12 hour fog rule essentially implied the home team had to be joined first anyway (not the same time) and so it was duplicative.

Now with the “new 12 hr rule” vs the old 12 hr fog rule arguments, it’s definitely become less clear what is expected.

That's not really accurate. CC4 was the last CCup competition requiring games to be sent fully joined. In CC5 (12 hour rule not enforced), home teams had 48 hours to join their games after the exchange, and away teams had 48 hours after that. In CC6 (12 hour fog rule not in effect but negotiable), there was not set requirement on when games had to be joined ("2 Weeks for planning and exchanging the first set of games, 2 Weeks for filling the first set of games and exchanging the second set of games").

[rockfist]

Much ado about nothing.

[IcePack]

It used to be in the rules Home team had to be fully joined.

When games are sent, they must already be created and fully joined by the home team. I should be copied in the private message sending each clans home games. Once home games are sent, the away clan has 5 full days to fill the games.

Along the way it was removed because of the 12 hour fog rule essentially implied the home team had to be joined first anyway (not the same time) and so it was duplicative.

Now with the “new 12 hr rule” vs the old 12 hr fog rule arguments, it’s definitely become less clear what is expected.

That's not really accurate. CC4 was the last CCup competition requiring games to be sent fully joined. In CC5 (12 hour rule not enforced), home teams had 48 hours to join their games after the exchange, and away teams had 48 hours after that. In CC6 (12 hour fog rule not in effect but negotiable), there was not set requirement on when games had to be joined ("2 Weeks for planning and exchanging the first set of games, 2 Weeks for filling the first set of games and exchanging the second set of games").

Ahh that’s right, thanks. Forgot how the transition occurred to the 2 week thing, but knew there had been past issue(s) with the exchanges and what constituted “created vs filled vs invited etc and so in the past it had been defined more clearly. (And possibly still is with CL? Idk, been awhile since I’ve been a war organizer)

[GoranZ]

Game 21954230
Round 5 niMic ran out of time.
Round 5 rousseau72 eliminated niMic from the game
As a result rousseau72 took one card less.

General Rules & Comments
Game abuse like purposely running out of time or throwing a game is prohibited. The first time a clan breaks this rule in CC12 the game must be re-made (unless other clan wants game to stand). Each subsequent violation during CC12 will result in a forfeit of the game.

We don't like the game to be re-made. We don't know if this is S&M first violation.

[rockfist]

That looks like a violation, but I'm not the judge.

[josko.ri]

Game 21954230
Round 5 niMic ran out of time.
Round 5 rousseau72 eliminated niMic from the game
As a result rousseau72 took one card less.

General Rules & Comments
Game abuse like purposely running out of time or throwing a game is prohibited. The first time a clan breaks this rule in CC12 the game must be re-made (unless other clan wants game to stand). Each subsequent violation during CC12 will result in a forfeit of the game.

We don't like the game to be re-made. We don't know if this is S&M first violation.

I wasnt really aware about this rule because previously I opened a public poll where actually team of the CCup TO were opponents, and public poll suggested that 78% of votes dont see any problem in doing this neither it was forbidden by rules, see below:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=236294

However, TOFU in quarterfinals did not report any such infraction from our side, neither did FALL until now, so this can at the best be classified as an opportunity to FALL to call for replay of the game under the first infraction of S&M in CCup12. Wanna replay?

[Donelladan]

@josko, you weren't in the game, so I don't think you can be held personally responsible for this play by S&M.
But to say that you weren't aware of the rule, and post a link to a thread, in which you say

All finalists of The Championships tournament are also actively playing in the other the biggest team event on the site, which is CCup. This same rule is officially prohibited in CCup which existed before The Championships, so I would logically expect that it should be also officially prohibited in The Championships. My expectation is obviously wrong and Fyrdraca, JPlo64 and groovysmurf took unsportamnship advantage of the fact that TO slightly changed this rule between CCup and The Championships.

(bottom of 1st page of the thread you linked).

So clearly, you're aware of the rule

[groovysmurf]

However, TOFU in quarterfinals did not report any such infraction from our side, neither did FALL until now, so this can at the best be classified as an opportunity to FALL to call for replay of the game under the first infraction of S&M in CCup12. Wanna replay?

So, you're saying you broke rules and they weren't reported by your opponent, and using that to what... Say you should be able to break rules now?

I may not be the genius you are, but this strikes me as wrong...

[niMic]

Game 21954230
Round 5 niMic ran out of time.
Round 5 rousseau72 eliminated niMic from the game
As a result rousseau72 took one card less.

General Rules & Comments
Game abuse like purposely running out of time or throwing a game is prohibited. The first time a clan breaks this rule in CC12 the game must be re-made (unless other clan wants game to stand). Each subsequent violation during CC12 will result in a forfeit of the game.

We don't like the game to be re-made. We don't know if this is S&M first violation.

The rule is about purposely running out of time, which I didn't do. Ask any of my current or former teammates: sometimes I miss turns, forget to end, advance when I shouldn't, attack my teammates, etc. That's just part of my charm. Only on the rarest of occasions does it lead to them quitting the clan or even the game forever.

I guess you don't want the game re-made because you're winning anyway, which is fair enough. That said, your clan is losing quite heavily with or without it, despite the fact that you're playing against the sorts of people who forget to end their turns, which must be driving you crazy. I'm not sure it's possible to become even more obnoxious than you've been so far, but I'm sure you'll give it your very best in the weeks to come. I have to admit that after 16 years on this site I don't think I've met anyone as thoroughly unlikeable as you, and that's despite the fact that for almost two decades you made absolutely zero impression on me before I actually had to interact with you, something I greatly regret doing. I'm sure many of your clanmates secretly (or maybe not secretly) think the same. You're clearly pretty good at the game, so it's a shame you've chosen to spend your time being such a gaping asshole.

If the staff wanted to stop the site (and the clan world) from slowly dying, they would do something about people like you. I've already decided that I'm going to quit after the Cup is over, and I can't wait until I no longer have to think about GoranZ who plays Risk online.

Cheers.

[MTIceman41]

Game 21954230
Round 5 niMic ran out of time.
Round 5 rousseau72 eliminated niMic from the game
As a result rousseau72 took one card less.

General Rules & Comments
Game abuse like purposely running out of time or throwing a game is prohibited. The first time a clan breaks this rule in CC12 the game must be re-made (unless other clan wants game to stand). Each subsequent violation during CC12 will result in a forfeit of the game.

We don't like the game to be re-made. We don't know if this is S&M first violation.

The rule is about purposely running out of time, which I didn't do. Ask any of my current or former teammates: sometimes I miss turns, forget to end, advance when I shouldn't, attack my teammates, etc. That's just part of my charm. Only on the rarest of occasions does it lead to them quitting the clan or even the game forever.

I guess you don't want the game re-made because you're winning anyway, which is fair enough. That said, your clan is losing quite heavily with or without it, despite the fact that you're playing against the sorts of people who forget to end their turns, which must be driving you crazy. I'm not sure it's possible to become even more obnoxious than you've been so far, but I'm sure you'll give it your very best in the weeks to come. I have to admit that after 16 years on this site I don't think I've met anyone as thoroughly unlikeable as you, and that's despite the fact that for almost two decades you made absolutely zero impression on me before I actually had to interact with you, something I greatly regret doing. I'm sure many of your clanmates secretly (or maybe not secretly) think the same. You're clearly pretty good at the game, so it's a shame you've chosen to spend your time being such a gaping asshole.

If the staff wanted to stop the site (and the clan world) from slowly dying, they would do something about people like you. I've already decided that I'm going to quit after the Cup is over, and I can't wait until I no longer have to think about GoranZ who plays Risk online.

Cheers.

I will fly to Norway and we will Sognefjorden it up, get some salmon, crush some risk…you and me kill goranz on world 2.1 always
Nimic is one of my favorite players of all time and would never do anything dishonorable. Please don’t leave the site…Viking spirit and feisty personality is what contributes to the site.

[Extreme Ways]

Game 21954230
Round 5 niMic ran out of time.
Round 5 rousseau72 eliminated niMic from the game
As a result rousseau72 took one card less.

General Rules & Comments
Game abuse like purposely running out of time or throwing a game is prohibited. The first time a clan breaks this rule in CC12 the game must be re-made (unless other clan wants game to stand). Each subsequent violation during CC12 will result in a forfeit of the game.

We don't like the game to be re-made. We don't know if this is S&M first violation.

The rule is about purposely running out of time, which I didn't do. Ask any of my current or former teammates: sometimes I miss turns, forget to end, advance when I shouldn't, attack my teammates, etc. That's just part of my charm. Only on the rarest of occasions does it lead to them quitting the clan or even the game forever.

I guess you don't want the game re-made because you're winning anyway, which is fair enough. That said, your clan is losing quite heavily with or without it, despite the fact that you're playing against the sorts of people who forget to end their turns, which must be driving you crazy. I'm not sure it's possible to become even more obnoxious than you've been so far, but I'm sure you'll give it your very best in the weeks to come. I have to admit that after 16 years on this site I don't think I've met anyone as thoroughly unlikeable as you, and that's despite the fact that for almost two decades you made absolutely zero impression on me before I actually had to interact with you, something I greatly regret doing. I'm sure many of your clanmates secretly (or maybe not secretly) think the same. You're clearly pretty good at the game, so it's a shame you've chosen to spend your time being such a gaping asshole.

If the staff wanted to stop the site (and the clan world) from slowly dying, they would do something about people like you. I've already decided that I'm going to quit after the Cup is over, and I can't wait until I no longer have to think about GoranZ who plays Risk online.

Cheers.

Damn, thats a statement

[josko.ri]

However, TOFU in quarterfinals did not report any such infraction from our side, neither did FALL until now, so this can at the best be classified as an opportunity to FALL to call for replay of the game under the first infraction of S&M in CCup12. Wanna replay?

So, you're saying you broke rules and they weren't reported by your opponent, and using that to what... Say you should be able to break rules now?

I may not be the genius you are, but this strikes me as wrong...

Why are you intentionally misinterpreting my words?

I say TOFU did not report any such infraction (totally 100% true statement).

Nowhere did I say or implied that such infraction did (or did not) occur in the war vs TOFU.

Why are you coming like and asshole and immediately conclude that we DID break a rule vs TOFU however no report was done so we got free walk? Show where we did break a rule vs TOFU, if you are implying that we did.

[josko.ri]

@josko, you weren't in the game, so I don't think you can be held personally responsible for this play by S&M.
But to say that you weren't aware of the rule, and post a link to a thread, in which you say

All finalists of The Championships tournament are also actively playing in the other the biggest team event on the site, which is CCup. This same rule is officially prohibited in CCup which existed before The Championships, so I would logically expect that it should be also officially prohibited in The Championships. My expectation is obviously wrong and Fyrdraca, JPlo64 and groovysmurf took unsportamnship advantage of the fact that TO slightly changed this rule between CCup and The Championships.

(bottom of 1st page of the thread you linked).

So clearly, you're aware of the rule

Since public opinion and vast majority of votes from that thread showed that CC community dislikes this rule, then I would expect the rule from the on to be consistent accross major CC events. Even gameplay of JpLO64 (CCup organizer) is targeted inthe thread, so if vast majority of CC community members voiced that they dislike this rule then I would expect this rule to not be applied anymore sitewise.

[rockfist]

I did not see any instances where S&M violated the rules against us…and if they did I’m sure it was small and had no impact on them winning. Not going back. Looking forward to CL.

[josko.ri]

Game 21954230
Round 5 niMic ran out of time.
Round 5 rousseau72 eliminated niMic from the game
As a result rousseau72 took one card less.

General Rules & Comments
Game abuse like purposely running out of time or throwing a game is prohibited. The first time a clan breaks this rule in CC12 the game must be re-made (unless other clan wants game to stand). Each subsequent violation during CC12 will result in a forfeit of the game.

We don't like the game to be re-made. We don't know if this is S&M first violation.

The rule is about purposely running out of time, which I didn't do. Ask any of my current or former teammates: sometimes I miss turns, forget to end, advance when I shouldn't, attack my teammates, etc. That's just part of my charm. Only on the rarest of occasions does it lead to them quitting the clan or even the game forever.

I guess you don't want the game re-made because you're winning anyway, which is fair enough. That said, your clan is losing quite heavily with or without it, despite the fact that you're playing against the sorts of people who forget to end their turns, which must be driving you crazy. I'm not sure it's possible to become even more obnoxious than you've been so far, but I'm sure you'll give it your very best in the weeks to come. I have to admit that after 16 years on this site I don't think I've met anyone as thoroughly unlikeable as you, and that's despite the fact that for almost two decades you made absolutely zero impression on me before I actually had to interact with you, something I greatly regret doing. I'm sure many of your clanmates secretly (or maybe not secretly) think the same. You're clearly pretty good at the game, so it's a shame you've chosen to spend your time being such a gaping asshole.

If the staff wanted to stop the site (and the clan world) from slowly dying, they would do something about people like you. I've already decided that I'm going to quit after the Cup is over, and I can't wait until I no longer have to think about GoranZ who plays Risk online.

Cheers.

Based on niMic post there is no violation even in this case. If you want to classify it as violation then you need to report it to TO.

It is also nice how GoranZ prematurely conclude that this IS an S&M offense, without reporting it to TO and receiving ruling that this is offense, and without givig us a chance to defend ourselves.

[fishydance]

I will fly to Norway and we will Sognefjorden it up, get some salmon, crush some risk…you and me kill goranz on world 2.1 always
Nimic is one of my favorite players of all time and would never do anything dishonorable. Please don’t leave the site…Viking spirit and feisty personality is what contributes to the site.

I will join you and have my relatives in Norway meet us there to truly party! While I'm at it, I'll join the two of you for some serious carnage in World 2.1