CC Wide Tournament

[Craig25]

CC desperately needs a CC wide ONGOING Tournament where 90% of the Active Players play it!

The ONLY way that will happen is if:

- CC asign a Tourney to be THE CONTINUOUS CC TOURNEY.
- REMOVE the LOST Ranking Points if you lose in it.
- KEEP the Ranking Points you GAIN in it.

When that is explained to NEW PLAYERS, they can join it RISK FREE and try out loads of NEW MAPS and play lots of NEW PLAYERS, they will join!

When that is explained to EXISTING CC PLAYERS, they get to play a fun Tourney with only RANKING POINTS to gain in it (or they lose ground on other players who play it), they will also join!

There is already a HUGE TOURNEY that has been running for over 2 Years on CC with 270 Players: The Band of Brothers Super League

That is the natural choice, but, I don't mind if a NEW TOURNEY is started, just as long as it ROCKS!

Current Super League Tables:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p8NopcJwcy-F9pm4s6YuMPE148DDpYBs5tCda26gC_g/edit?usp=sharing

Current Super League Forum (Next Season KICKS OFF Thurs 2nd March):
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=238964

But, what are the opinion of other CC Players, please comment by replying on this Forum, and VOTE in the POLL!

Should CC deliver a Continuous Tournament that is set up to maximise Player Participation?

[Awoodness]

Best, most fun, most entertaining, with excellent fun commentary tournament I have played in in my 11 years here. Great tourney, keep it up. Thanks CC and the founders of the tourney!

[weaselshane]

Super League is obviously the Snizzle (as Snoop would say).

Having said that I don’t understand the question.

Is the question: do we want SBSL to carry on? Then the answer is yes.
If the question is: do we want an additional CC led tourney in a similar style. Then the answer is yes.

Is it a binary question?

[Craig25]

The Question is, should CC Deliver an ongoing Tourney that maximises Player Participation?

And if they, should. Should they use The Super League for this purpose or set up a brand new Tourney!

Super League is obviously the Snizzle (as Snoop would say).

Having said that I don’t understand the question.

Is the question: do we want SBSL to carry on? Then the answer is yes.
If the question is: do we want an additional CC led tourney in a similar style. Then the answer is yes.

Is it a binary question?

[weaselshane]

An I understand.

SBSL: indy4life

[Tviorr]

Hmmm.

Not going to vote just yet on it as explained above.

First off, I enjoy the super league. Pretty sure I will enjoy the cup also. Im pretty sure it gets me more on CC and that Im more active and enjoy my time there more. Also, I think it initiates enough energy in me that Im more liable to join and look for other events on CC as well.

Im thinking that its fairly easy to get to and join the super leagues and the cup, but I agree, it could probably grow and would benefit from more attention and a bit more exposure and easy access. - Im thinking a label as the official leagues of CC would be a good idea. Stamp, official approval and a spot on the major events on the top of the page.

I dont think that will get us 90%+ of active players involved in the super leagues. Some players arent looking for that experience and some players arent looking for that experience right now. - But thats fine. Not sure there should be a percentage goal here. Just rope in all interested players and be content with the percentage and amount of players that turns into.


As for the no ratings loss in the leagues, Im not sure I like it. - Its an interesting idea, but there are a few side effects thats probably not where we want to go. Firstly there will be some inflation in the ratings system. That in itself could be something we might live with for a new initiative, but it will mean that the work of the top players in getting to the top ratings will be devaluated quite a lot. - Not sure its worth it just for a bit of extra motivation to join the leagues. - Secondly and to me more importantly, it will encourage main or even exclusive participation in the leagues. - As in it will actually actively discourage participation in other events. At least i you care about ratings. - Someone that participates only in the super leagues will drift higher in the ratings than someone that participates in both the leagues and other stuff. Thats just inevitable with a huge ratings advantage in the super league matches.

I dont think we want that. Theres already a built in system in the ratings that works pretty well, where a lower ranked player playing a higher ranked player loses less points and gains more points while the higher ranked player loses more and gains less rating points. To my mind this system works reasonably well. There is some less intented consequence that hunting big ratings will mean participation in certain types of games and events over other types that you cant play or only play very rarely if you want to compete for the top 5-10% ratings.

If the above change of not losing ratings in the leagues were effected, hunting ratings would mean that you could only play league games. Also a good cc player that played only league matches would get a lead that would be pretty much impossible to catch up to if you started hunting their ratings a year or two later even if you also only played league matches.

so yes to making the leagues the official leagues of cc and the cup the official cup of cc, but no to removing ratings loss in league matches.

[Craig25]

A very interesting response Tviorr.

The thing that almost nullifies your concerns with the Ranking System is that, playing the Super League on it's own does not give 1 player anywhere near enough games to keep them coming back to CC. In order to get a decent number of games to keep them coming back daily they would automatically have to play games outwith the Super League.

There needs to be a hook that binds New Players and Players who are trying to build there Rank into participating in an ongoing Tournament.

I honestly think a 'No Point Loss' is the way forward to do that. Until that happens, there will be no SITE-WIDE Tourney with HUGE participation levels and sadly, CC will continue to decline, while the Super League will probably maintain it's current numbers all be it, it will not grow bigger.

So, 100%, I am thinking there has to be an Ongoing Tourney with HUGE player participation.

The ONLY question is, should it be The Super League or can CC produce something of a similar or better standard?

Hmmm.

Not going to vote just yet on it as explained above.

First off, I enjoy the super league. Pretty sure I will enjoy the cup also. Im pretty sure it gets me more on CC and that Im more active and enjoy my time there more. Also, I think it initiates enough energy in me that Im more liable to join and look for other events on CC as well.

Im thinking that its fairly easy to get to and join the super leagues and the cup, but I agree, it could probably grow and would benefit from more attention and a bit more exposure and easy access. - Im thinking a label as the official leagues of CC would be a good idea. Stamp, official approval and a spot on the major events on the top of the page.

I dont think that will get us 90%+ of active players involved in the super leagues. Some players arent looking for that experience and some players arent looking for that experience right now. - But thats fine. Not sure there should be a percentage goal here. Just rope in all interested players and be content with the percentage and amount of players that turns into.


As for the no ratings loss in the leagues, Im not sure I like it. - Its an interesting idea, but there are a few side effects thats probably not where we want to go. Firstly there will be some inflation in the ratings system. That in itself could be something we might live with for a new initiative, but it will mean that the work of the top players in getting to the top ratings will be devaluated quite a lot. - Not sure its worth it just for a bit of extra motivation to join the leagues. - Secondly and to me more importantly, it will encourage main or even exclusive participation in the leagues. - As in it will actually actively discourage participation in other events. At least i you care about ratings. - Someone that participates only in the super leagues will drift higher in the ratings than someone that participates in both the leagues and other stuff. Thats just inevitable with a huge ratings advantage in the super league matches.

I dont think we want that. Theres already a built in system in the ratings that works pretty well, where a lower ranked player playing a higher ranked player loses less points and gains more points while the higher ranked player loses more and gains less rating points. To my mind this system works reasonably well. There is some less intented consequence that hunting big ratings will mean participation in certain types of games and events over other types that you cant play or only play very rarely if you want to compete for the top 5-10% ratings.

If the above change of not losing ratings in the leagues were effected, hunting ratings would mean that you could only play league games. Also a good cc player that played only league matches would get a lead that would be pretty much impossible to catch up to if you started hunting their ratings a year or two later even if you also only played league matches.

so yes to making the leagues the official leagues of cc and the cup the official cup of cc, but no to removing ratings loss in league matches.

[Dukasaur]

I don't see any reason for there to be one huge tournament that overshadows all the others.

The one good thing about CC is the tremendous variety of activities there are available to do here. Many tournaments, many challenges, many types of game.

[Craig25]

It's 100% not about over shadowing, it's about binding players together into the 1 Tournament that is a level playing field for all. It creates a Common Interest across all the site.

And variety is a good thing, I agree, but sadly, the site is declining. So area's like Clans and general participation levels and Tournament Parrticipation are also way down. The only thing that's bucking this trend is the Super League!

1 Comon Tournament is a way to drive up numbers on the site! Not just in 1 Tournament.

I don't see any reason for there to be one huge tournament that overshadows all the others.

The one good thing about CC is the tremendous variety of activities there are available to do here. Many tournaments, many challenges, many types of game.

[IcePack]

I don’t see how you’d hit 90% participation rate even under the no points lost and other variables proposed.

I wouldn’t be against CC making an effort towards such a tournament, but I also personally would have 0 interest in participating in that tournament. I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one not interested.

[Craig25]

Players who play the Super League typically stick around. 90% is a fair target. It's not for everyone. But if anywhere near 60% joined then that offers massive benefits to CC.

60% of players wanting to stick around is better than players drifting away from the site, which, is what we have currently. I never understand why players argue for NO CHANGE when that is the situation currently.

I don’t see how you’d hit 90% participation rate even under the no points lost and other variables proposed.

I wouldn’t be against CC making an effort towards such a tournament, but I also personally would have 0 interest in participating in that tournament. I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one not interested.

[Tviorr]

Well take me as an example.

My activity has dwindled some, but its reasonable, I think, to fit in with IRL and IRL challenges. - A few years ago my activity was somewhat too high and it was somewhat draining in the long run. - Then I usually had 100+ active game at any given time. Often, I had trouble taking my turns in time and would have to hurry through a lot of games. I had the same problem occasionally later where I had a period of perhaps 40-60 games as the usual game load.

The past year or so my activity has declined some though Ive never considered myself as drifting away from cc, just playing with a lower activity. And the past year, Ive mainly played the Super League matches. Secondarily (in number of matches, I put equal time and effort into these) I play clangames and we usually have something going or in the works, but its a much small number of games and from time to time my clan gameload can be 0 matches for a few days or a week. Other than this, I pick an occasional tourney - Mogul of course, but aside from that one mostly the occasional map I like in Map Masters and 1 or 2 tourneys clanmates roped me into,

- Sounds like more than it is. I would estimate that 80%+ of my games are super league games. But then again, I dont care - much - about my ratings. I like to keep it from dropping too low and I like it when I occasionally push it a bit higher than usual, but I have no illusions about or intent towards ever pushing it into contension amongs the top rated players.

Too late to make a long story short, but what Im getting at is this. - I could rather easily see myself drifting to almost exclusively playing super league games. Im not presently investing much into the clanlife and its the good work and effort of other clanmembers that Im able to be fairly active in clan games simply by accepting invitations and playing and occasionally answering clan mails about preferred maps on home and away games. Apart from that its a few mates that draw me into something and their efforts that keep me involved in a few other games. Other than that only the very occasional tourney looks so interesting to me that Id be sorry to miss it.

Should the active members in my clan and my m8tes hit low(er) activity at some point, nearly everything I play outside the super league would dwindle away. This is without any special interest in ratings.

Im thinking that yes a number of high rated players would need other games than super league games to keep them interested and active in cc, but some wouldnt. Some would make the calculation really quickly that there would be no point from a rating perspective in playing any other games than League games. These players would find themselves on top of the ratings only competing with each other. The field of players in that top would widen some as the players that have ratings as their main goal in cc would be forced to drop non-league games.

Im thinking the above is unavoidable and at least to me that sort of defeats the purpose of the ratings system. And I think that would be a shame.

As for the Super sized 90 % participation driving cc onwards, Im thinking thats not neccessary. - The super league will serve as a major source of activity and fun in cc without such huge numbers. Somewhere between 20 and 50% is plenty and probably achievable. And if the Super league should be used more actively and intentionally towards boosting the activity, fun levels and player retention on all of cc, then I would go another way. - I would create links to other events on CC to both keep and exploit the variety on CC. - Could be something along the line of how the cup interacts with the Super League, but it could be the other way as well if the Super League occationally promoted another event and maybe even yielded some small advantage in this other event. - Possibly it could be done simply by seeding players by their placements in the super league for such an event, perhaps there could be an extra home game for players that won a league in the lates super leagues season .... or ... or... Im sure the possibilities are only limited by the organizers imagination.

In any case, Im thinking working in that direction could promote the variety that to me is one of the great strengths in CC.

[Nut Shot Scott]

The fact that Craig thinks that not having this vague, poorly defined mystery tournament is the thing that is preventing growth on this site should tell anyone all they need to know.

[Keefie]

The fact that Craig thinks that not having this vague, poorly defined mystery tournament is the thing that is preventing growth on this site should tell anyone all they need to know.

Maybe your negative comments to everything Craig25 posts, tells everyone everything they need to know. If you can't add anything of value to the thread then it might be an idea not to respond.

[IcePack]

Players who play the Super League typically stick around. 90% is a fair target. It's not for everyone. But if anywhere near 60% joined then that offers massive benefits to CC.

60% of players wanting to stick around is better than players drifting away from the site, which, is what we have currently. I never understand why players argue for NO CHANGE when that is the situation currently.

I don’t see how you’d hit 90% participation rate even under the no points lost and other variables proposed.

I wouldn’t be against CC making an effort towards such a tournament, but I also personally would have 0 interest in participating in that tournament. I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one not interested.

I dont have direct knowledge of SL retention, but generally I'd agree that I've seen people who participate in activities stick around longer (similar impacts as clans and the like there, perhaps different audiences but same result)

I definitely didn't say / argue for "no change", I even went so far to say that I wouldn't be against CC pursuing something like that. Just that 90% is totally unrealistic and used a personal example as to why and then guesstimated there would be others with similar thought processes.
I think 60% even is a high target thats likely unachievable.

I think theres strong room for improvement and ways to change. I think a tournament like you're proposing could help keep some people around even. I am simply saying, I dont think the target is realistic

Theres something like 1200 "active" players (I think, im tired and might not be remembering that correctly. 1200-2000 max) that keep any sort of game loads (20+ a month) so to have almost 300 already signed up to the SL,
my guess is your straining pretty hard on players that might be interested. I could see that realistically hitting maybe half the total active (600 total) if there was strong outreach and what not, but I think retention amounts would go down
and people missing invites / turns and whatever would increase as unreliability will set in on a larger player group. (not saying 600 max people, just using that as the current example of 50% of the 1200 population I think is realistic target)

Anyway, again, not arguing for zero change. And with a entire clan population of 500-1000, having a tournament that encompasses 600 wouldn't be a bad thing. It would basically have similar results as clan as far as increasing retention, but again perhaps
targeting a different subset of customers / player base. So would be a worthy endeavor for sure. There are a lot of changes that can be made that would have meaningful outcome, depending on the targeted group would depend on the targeted action(s) that need to be evaluated.

It wouldn't have much impact on new player retention, but that probably isn't the key demographic / goal of the tournament. Keeping existing customers around is pretty critical task as well, and making sure you're hitting all those players needs / wants as a customer
would be pretty important. Where it lands on scale of which task to tackle first (new player retention vs keeping existing players happy) is not for me to decide

[Craig25]

Keefie, Nut Shot comes across as a Total Knob, best just leave it at that. I really think the Guy has weird issues that makes him like this. But Hey Ho. Note, I didn't actualluy say Nut Shot Scott is a 'Totaal Knob'

Up The O's

The fact that Craig thinks that not having this vague, poorly defined mystery tournament is the thing that is preventing growth on this site should tell anyone all they need to know.

Maybe your negative comments to everything Craig25 posts, tells everyone everything they need to know. If you can't add anything of value to the thread then it might be an idea not to respond.

[ConfederateSS]

Best, most fun, most entertaining, with excellent fun commentary tournament I have played in in my 11 years here. Great tourney, keep it up. Thanks CC and the founders of the tourney!

---------OUCH ....The Great War Event had KOOL Tourneys and Stories setting the tale of Battle... ....

--------- Craig25...Sounds O.K.....But THE GREAT WAR EVENT started out with a bang, to replicate The 4 years of fighting, a Hundred years later...3 and a half yearish...Many factors.... Mostly in real life....Hit The hopes of a finish hard, prevented it from A Spectacular Ending....Just becareful not to put the cart before the horse....But Good Luck and Full Speed Ahead....Those Gigantic ongoing Tourneys/Events can have alot of ups and downs...
--------- Taking IcePack's totals...The Great War Event had between 8 and 10% of Active Members, playing and Involved in it....... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...