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Mafia and CC..What now.

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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby pancakemix on Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:57 pm

StorrZerg wrote:Hi pcm still upset?


Don't know that I was ever "upset". "Frustrated" is more accurate. Or "fed up", maybe.

Storr wrote:(part of this can be directed to me, i know pcm has had a problem with my play, i know mets has issues with how i hosted the past game) But in the end all they can do is just "not play with me" Which just means if people keep doing this for other reasons it makes it very hard to fill games.


And this mentality is exactly why this forum is dead. If someone doesn't know the game, how is throwing them to the wolves going to make them want to play more? How does "go away" foster anything other than ill will? And if you act like a jerk from the outset (which I'll note is not an attack on you but rather, as you say, a part of the game) how can new players be expected to enjoy it.

Yes, mafia is a game about manipulation and deception. But it's a very fine line between the fun aspect of that idea and the abusive aspect. Saying you or the community at-large aren't not the problem is not an answer. Everything needs to be reexamined. And seeing as the community at large has been an issue since BEFORE you even came here, it's as good a starting point as any.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:49 pm

Again its a game of deception/ and emotion. This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.

If being a "jerk" is a problem to the majority, then yes it should be called out on. If its only 1 person complaining about it, then maybe that person needs to not take things so personally.


I think most new people, dont understand post game, and why its important. Its important to try and learn from the game, and if you are new to ask questions, or even join a game with a coach.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby Iron Butterfly on Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:45 am

how many core people do you need to keep a community? Just looking at some of the names who posted I know, they have not played in ages.

i would think the biggest problem is explaining what it is to those who have no idea and recognizing that it certainly is NOT for everyone. It is what it is. I have wanted to mod a game for the longest time but am such a perfectionist that I am scared it wont be good enough. BUT f*ck it. Ill do it.

Ill post something next week. Its not like I haven't played enough games.

In the meantime keep the ideas and talk going.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby virus90 on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:26 am

i think a limiting part of the mafia game is the time the community expects people to put into the game. In my perception the community asks more time of the people in the game then lets say 1 year ago.
Personally i need a lot of time writing my messages since english is not my native language (which ofcourse is a point on its own, think it me and streaker who are not native speakers, rest is all english), i think ill manage in general to get my message across to the other people but it takes me longer to write it for sure, if i post a big post it sometimes takes me 1-2 hours, carefully rereading, frasing not to get lynched over a technicality etc.
I can imagine it keeps people away since, unlike in my perception 1 or 2 years ago, it is now kind of community expected to post about every 24 hours and with content.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:47 am

I'd almost got say, our first game "breaking bad mafia"
I think you posted more in the first day phase second day phase than you do in last couple games.

As far as your activity, right here and now. We are not in game, so as an honest thing i think its fine. While it is preferred to have someone post once every 24 hours, if you miss a day its not terrible, But its also pretty bad to only have 3 posts on a day phase. Specially if one is a joke vote.

Another thing regarding activity, it doesn't matter till the mod steps in. Everyone can scream for someone to post, or pressure them. I mean thats part of the game. If someone is truly not being active, the mod should prod them. Again that choice is based on the mods choice on how active they want the game to be.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:46 pm

StorrZerg wrote:This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.


WHAT?!

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Honestly it's hard to follow some games (For me). Because doing it at work and trying to catch up when you get off work is a pain.

I seriously think trying to read through some of the novels that get posted is really hard to follow and understand. Especially at the end of a work day.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:16 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:
StorrZerg wrote:This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.


WHAT?!

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Honestly it's hard to follow some games (For me). Because doing it at work and trying to catch up when you get off work is a pain.

I seriously think trying to read through some of the novels that get posted is really hard to follow and understand. Especially at the end of a work day.



Some of the tricks with limited time is knowing whats important to read. Reading everything isn't important. its like taking notes reading a history book, you can't possible write everything word for word, or remember everything in it.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:23 pm

StorrZerg wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:
StorrZerg wrote:This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.


WHAT?!

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Honestly it's hard to follow some games (For me). Because doing it at work and trying to catch up when you get off work is a pain.

I seriously think trying to read through some of the novels that get posted is really hard to follow and understand. Especially at the end of a work day.



Some of the tricks with limited time is knowing whats important to read. Reading everything isn't important. its like taking notes reading a history book, you can't possible write everything word for word, or remember everything in it.


following this up, i think its more important to get something down. so others have a chance to see your stance on the game. You dont want to get into the point of a game where you are super behind, trying to catch up, and keep not being able to post something since you just can't catch a break.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:38 pm

virus90 wrote:it is now kind of community expected to post about every 24 hours and with content.


That was always expected. It's why I stopped playing games, since I was the only one doing that, so I was always in the hot seat.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby Iron Butterfly on Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:59 pm

virus90 wrote:i think a limiting part of the mafia game is the time the community expects people to put into the game. In my perception the community asks more time of the people in the game then lets say 1 year ago.
Personally i need a lot of time writing my messages since english is not my native language (which ofcourse is a point on its own, think it me and streaker who are not native speakers, rest is all english), i think ill manage in general to get my message across to the other people but it takes me longer to write it for sure, if i post a big post it sometimes takes me 1-2 hours, carefully rereading, frasing not to get lynched over a technicality etc.
I can imagine it keeps people away since, unlike in my perception 1 or 2 years ago, it is now kind of community expected to post about every 24 hours and with content.


I did not know that about your English, which makes sense on some of your answers in your past games. No offense. Your English is very good but perhaps that is part of the reason you come off the way you do.

I think Safari had the rule of try to post at least once every (real day). these games are about conversations and debate. its about mafia making Town look bad and nothing looks worse then someone seemingly laying low. Its a game about psychology and reverse psychology.

I think the reason more pressure is on people to post is because of the recent history of games stalling and fizzing out. Even mods have bailed on games, which is poor form in my opinion. We are trying to keep the community alive and want it to prosper.

lets be honest here. In the old days I would give my self a three game max as more then that became overwhelming, especially with the wall of text games. Today it is not a problem. real life is real life but the way the games have played lately posting something, anything does not take a lot.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby pancakemix on Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:50 pm

StorrZerg wrote:Again its a game of deception/ and emotion. This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.

If being a "jerk" is a problem to the majority, then yes it should be called out on. If its only 1 person complaining about it, then maybe that person needs to not take things so personally.


I think most new people, dont understand post game, and why its important. Its important to try and learn from the game, and if you are new to ask questions, or even join a game with a coach.


Reasons why I find playing with you frustrating: you only say what you've already said and don't respond to points. Like you're doing now. ;)

My point was that just because it's a game of deception doesn't mean we have to be hard on new players. They can totally join a game and ask questions without someone immediately jumping down their throat for making a mistake that may not even be a mistake. This leads to people feeling like outcasts in the group and leaving in frustration. We as a community have been guilty of this for some time. "Tough love" is not a good way to bring people in.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:39 pm

Again its a game of deception/ and emotion. This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby pancakemix on Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:49 pm

StorrZerg wrote:Again its a game of deception/ and emotion. This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.


^^Case in point. You're being an asshole for no reason other than to be an asshole. I came here to converse about this because this place matters to me even though I don't come here anymore. If you're content to watch it burn, I'll fetch you a fiddle.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:16 am

pancakemix wrote:
StorrZerg wrote:Again its a game of deception/ and emotion. This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.


^^Case in point. You're being an asshole for no reason other than to be an asshole. I came here to converse about this because this place matters to me even though I don't come here anymore. If you're content to watch it burn, I'll fetch you a fiddle.


I have to agree on this one. You can't expect to throw people into the fire and expect them to survive without any sort of preparation. The reason I was always hesitant to play because I didn't know HOW to play (and pointing to the "How-to" wiki page didn't help). So when I would look in threads and see a play/reaction similar to new players as what your saying Storr, I never joined any game. Because why join when some guy is going to jump down my throat whenever I ask a question or make a simple mistake?
The only reason I GOT into Mafia was on another website where I could join a game and ask questions (What does omgus mean, and how is it a bad thing), while playing it as well without being hassled for being new.

If I'm playing a sport with a friend and I know they are using a wrong technique, I'm not going to chew them out and call them names because they don't play said sport.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:03 pm

It used to be a friendly-ish group that had its own meta (we always LAL for example and never NL D1 without a case). Too many n00bs with their own ideas watered down the meta and made every game an argument about how to play.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:15 pm

I stopped playing mostly because the quality of players or maybe content had died down. I'm not the best player, but I find it frustrating when the game devolves into simply follow the cop. No one wanted to take risks or make real (or fraudulent!) cases, mostly it was spurious he-said-she-said gossip or attitude confrontations. Seriously, some of my last few games were just empty of real, quality posts and wouldn't generate discussion until someone said they had a guilty. And that's boring. I think a lot of players got a little too spoiled with NV games. I'll be the first to admit my quality (or rather participation) sometimes suffers, because I've got a pretty full schedule, but I always tried to bring something worthwhile to the table.

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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:41 pm

Try a game. I think things have changed.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:16 pm

StorrZerg wrote:Try a game. I think things have changed.


You don't know me very well, so this may come as a surprise to you. I read the entire forum every day. That includes all the tournament sign ups, and all the mafia games. The quality hasn't improved.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:08 pm

^yeah, it definitely hasn't. I still check in once in a while. Mafia is dead as fuckin' dead.

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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:10 pm

suit yourself, i've yet to play with you, and much of what you ranted about isn't true imo.
cases are made
(he said she said, is a part of mafia lol?>???)
Some people are better at driving discussion, can be difficult on day 1, which is why i suppose some people complain about it and would rather do nothing.
I agree many people are spoiled with NV games, but there have been a few plain games since then.
Most of my town games, i don't feel as if we have ever "waited" for the cop to claim.

Don't think i've played with you tails so meh.

@doom, i wasn't referring to you.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby pancakemix on Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:47 am

StorrZerg wrote:My opinion is the only one that matters in a community game


^^what I'm reading
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:09 pm

Games up, you should join.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby aage on Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:27 pm

pancakemix wrote:
StorrZerg wrote:Again its a game of deception/ and emotion. This isn't pretty pretty ponies in magical fairly land.


^^Case in point. You're being an asshole for no reason other than to be an asshole. I came here to converse about this because this place matters to me even though I don't come here anymore. If you're content to watch it burn, I'll fetch you a fiddle.
DoomYoshi wrote:Too many n00bs with their own ideas watered down the meta and made every game an argument about how to play.

This is why I quit. I have had huge amounts of time on my hands the past six months but decided not to spend it in a place that made me miserable.
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby StorrZerg on Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:02 pm

talk it out?
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Re: Mafia and CC..What now.

Postby IcePack on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:55 pm

Pretty much sums up everything I've experienced, never seemed new user friendly enough to make me care enough to get into it. I tried once and died D1 I believe. Was pretty miserable experience even trying to prepare / read up ahead of time
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