Simpsons Mafia (8 of 13) Endgame, Town Win!

[pancakemix]

As for the claim: I am very reluctant to do so, but looks like I don't have a choice. I am Marge Simpson, Town Lover. I think you can obviously guess who the pairing is. There's slightly more to my role but I definitely don't think it's beneficial to town to reveal at the moment.

That's a bold claim. Also sounds like scare tactics. I need more. And Homer should come forward. At the moment, I think we need to know exactly what we're getting into.

Are you masoned?

[pershy]

I asked the mod and the mod told me that if I went to a cult member's place for the night that I would indeed die.

guess that makes sense. Lucky you only hid behind me on N1.

Scratch what I said earlier about cult members. I think it's just me. If only you could all join it. It's so beautiful being a Movementarian and I can't wait to get on the Blisstona spaceship and live in everlasting happiness.

Anyway - that claim is indeed a bold one. It seems too good to be fake, yet all I know is my result and I trust it.
If Homer and Marge are lovers - then one would be mafia and the other not. Doesn't really make sense based on heir characters in the series, but could be. If Homer could add anything to the conversation then I guess that would help, but he may not want to.

I wish I could guess what Shaggy is getting at when he says there's more but doesn't wanna reveal.......

If he really is town lover I could have got a guilty result for various reasons - that pesky bus driver again, paranoid investigation (for a JOAT?) um....could have been framed too. Trouble is we can't know until we lynch and find out for sure. I'm happy to discuss and consider other options, let's see what transpires.

[dazza2008]

Vote Count

pershy(3) - ShaggyDan, LSU Tiger Josh, TheForgivenOne
ShaggyDan(5) - pershy, thechuck51, pmchugh, pancakemix, safariguy5

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

[thechuck51]

Unvote vote pershy

I realized something today. There is a chance (albeit small) that cult can still win. There appears to be a vigilante so if we go into the last night with 1 mafia, 1 big, 1 cult and the gig and mafia kill each other cult will win. This makes me wonder if per shy is willing to throw anybody under the bus as long as he survives. This has become more evident as I re-read his responses to people's votes.

We only have his word that shaggy is mafia and I am now questioning whether or not we can believe him

[safariguy5]

Unvote vote pershy

I realized something today. There is a chance (albeit small) that cult can still win. There appears to be a vigilante so if we go into the last night with 1 mafia, 1 big, 1 cult and the gig and mafia kill each other cult will win. This makes me wonder if per shy is willing to throw anybody under the bus as long as he survives. This has become more evident as I re-read his responses to people's votes.

We only have his word that shaggy is mafia and I am now questioning whether or not we can believe him

I agree that we should get rid of pershy eventually, but given we still have 10 alive, I think we can wait and see where this lynch goes today. If we lose a lot of people tonight, then we lynch pershy tomorrow.

[thechuck51]

Unvote vote pershy

I realized something today. There is a chance (albeit small) that cult can still win. There appears to be a vigilante so if we go into the last night with 1 mafia, 1 big, 1 cult and the gig and mafia kill each other cult will win. This makes me wonder if per shy is willing to throw anybody under the bus as long as he survives. This has become more evident as I re-read his responses to people's votes.

We only have his word that shaggy is mafia and I am now questioning whether or not we can believe him

I agree that we should get rid of pershy eventually, but given we still have 10 alive, I think we can wait and see where this lynch goes today. If we lose a lot of people tonight, then we lynch pershy tomorrow.

If shaggy is mafia (and the only reason he is suspect is because of what pershy has said) then lynching him won't affect the number of potential kills tonight since I doubt he is the last one. We could also use tonight to verify his alignment to make sure we don't mistakenly lynch town. When I realized there is a way for pershy to win as cult I decided to take anything he has said with a grain of salt since it probably only serves his own purposes and not the town.

vote shaggy

pershy can be dealt with at any time and he cant kill anybody at night. We need to take out mafia now when we have the chance.

Exactly you can leave me til last or at least til later.

We have to be careful that we don't keep putting him off until its too late. We know his win condition and it is not compatible to town's win condition.

[ShaggyDan]

However, I see no real reason for cult to lie about a guilty result.

And what is the reason for them to be truthful? The reason for them to lie would be to get one more night alive... For all we know there could still be another cult or the chance to use a one shot night recruit.

To answer the questions about my role; we are not mason'd nor do I know who Homer is.

Also I didn't realise I was at L-1 when I claimed... I would fos the last person to vote me but Wiggum seems legit. I would suggest we exercise a tad more caution and at least let people claim before putting them in hammer range.

[ShaggyDan]

Also what is the motivation behind a JOAT not using any powers night one and after becoming cult using.your investigation? I definitely would have used my investigate night one while I was town... Once I knew I was cult it wouldn't really matter about finding the allignments of others.

[pershy]

Unvote vote pershy

I realized something today. There is a chance (albeit small) that cult can still win. There appears to be a vigilante so if we go into the last night with 1 mafia, 1 big, 1 cult and the gig and mafia kill each other cult will win. This makes me wonder if per shy is willing to throw anybody under the bus as long as he survives. This has become more evident as I re-read his responses to people's votes.

We only have his word that shaggy is mafia and I am now questioning whether or not we can believe him

Why am I willing to throw anyone under the bus? That doesn't make sense and it's an expression fro what mafia do to each other. On the contrary I said I'm willing to discuss and find a way forward. I obviously have voted Shaggy cause I got a guilty result and I think he's mafia and anyone that protects him now will come under the microscope later.

Why do you think there's a vigilante? If that was the case then there would be 2 kills per night. The only was for cult to win is if it's me and 1 player left at the end and I don't think that's very likely to happen. Anyway the point of keeping me alive is to allow me to use my investigations, of course I'll prob get N killed anyway.

[pershy]

Also what is the motivation behind a JOAT not using any powers night one and after becoming cult using.your investigation? I definitely would have used my investigate night one while I was town... Once I knew I was cult it wouldn't really matter about finding the allignments of others.

I didn't use my powers night one because I wanted to save them to have more info and didn't have a clue who to use them on. So I waited til N2. The leader was dead anyway - what was I gonna do not use it? By then I had something to go on. LSU had defended me on D1. I figured he must have had a reason and I knew I was town. You came in and went against what he said. For me that was a scum tell so I decided to investigate you.

[TheForgivenOne]

Hmmm I'm torn at the moment which one would be the better lynch at the moment. We could lynch Shaggy, because I don't get why pershy would lie about a result, but then again, I don't know why Willy would have an investigation type power. I'd see him with a Vig shot instead of an Investigation (Based on the one episode where he kills kids in their sleep). I could see him as a Lyncher, but I doubt he'd be on Marge (More likely Bart).

Unvote I'll unvote for now, I'm leaning towards voting Shaggy.

[pmchugh]

Yeah I was just going to bring up lyncher, it seems a possibility but I think that its more likely pershy is telling the truth.

At this point shaggy must give us all the details of lover etc or we should lynch him.

[Djfireside]

As for the claim: I am very reluctant to do so, but looks like I don't have a choice. I am Marge Simpson, Town Lover. I think you can obviously guess who the pairing is. There's slightly more to my role but I definitely don't think it's beneficial to town to reveal at the moment.

Wow I missed a fun part of the day being at that wedding.

Shaggy I dont believe your claim. As for Pershy I think they are also having some issue as most of the time cultists lose their power but I think we should leave them to the vigilante but Shaggy is scum and I dont believe them.

Vote Shaggy

[ShaggyDan]

Wow, really guys? Lets just have another look at this:

1. We are lynching me over a guilty result that he himself has confirmed.

2. There is no proof he is even groundskeeper willie. IF he is there is still no way to verify his night actions because he has claimed cult! A seperate win condition means his motives and actions can not be trusted. He is obviously going to say whatever he can to stay alive.

3. The only thing that suggests his claim of cult is truthful is the hiding situation. Which has been presented by an unclaimed player as well as having the possibility of that action being tampered with. There is still a chance the.whole claim is BS and he is mafia scum.

4. If he is cult there is no guarantee that another night alive won't help him achieve his WC. Yes; he says he can't win. Of course he would say that to stay alive!

5. A lot of you are saying lynch him later. What do you do when I flip town and you've wasted your chance to expose him now? If you hold off lynching him when that could have saved a townie now it is very poor play. If you're going to lynch him later why not do it now to get at least some of the unknowns out of the situation.

We have a guilty result plus he admitted he is guilty. It doesn't get much more black and white. He cannot be trusted.

No matter what way you cut it there is a lot of IF's in all the reasoning behind lynching me. Other than that I don't know what else to say. The part of my role I left out was a one-shot bulletproof that I thought would be better to not reveal, but seeing how everyone is trusting the cult recruitee's guilty instead of the cop's I guess it doesn't matter.

[Djfireside]

Wow, really guys? Lets just have another look at this:

1. We are lynching me over a guilty result that he himself has confirmed.

2. There is no proof he is even groundskeeper willie. IF he is there is still no way to verify his night actions because he has claimed cult! A seperate win condition means his motives and actions can not be trusted. He is obviously going to say whatever he can to stay alive.

3. The only thing that suggests his claim of cult is truthful is the hiding situation. Which has been presented by an unclaimed player as well as having the possibility of that action being tampered with. There is still a chance the.whole claim is BS and he is mafia scum.

4. If he is cult there is no guarantee that another night alive won't help him achieve his WC. Yes; he says he can't win. Of course he would say that to stay alive!

5. A lot of you are saying lynch him later. What do you do when I flip town and you've wasted your chance to expose him now? If you hold off lynching him when that could have saved a townie now it is very poor play. If you're going to lynch him later why not do it now to get at least some of the unknowns out of the situation.

We have a guilty result plus he admitted he is guilty. It doesn't get much more black and white. He cannot be trusted.

No matter what way you cut it there is a lot of IF's in all the reasoning behind lynching me. Other than that I don't know what else to say. The part of my role I left out was a one-shot bulletproof that I thought would be better to not reveal, but seeing how everyone is trusting the cult recruitee's guilty instead of the cop's I guess it doesn't matter.

Alright Ill give you the benefit of your claim. So you get the questions now as well because I think both of you are pretty much on the hit list.

You claim you are Marge so you can answer the questions and we will see what you are. The reason I am going for you over a recruitee is we can keep him at bay and theorectically cant do anything as I truely believe from all the cults I have played that his power should be gone and if its not that leads to a more fun point. Plus if can get more info on you it may seem to help your case as you seem to be fluttering around back to the questions which others have asked.

1) You are a lover, We are assuming with Homer, Do you know who Homer is? Dont reveal them but just do you know who they are.

2) Are you a mason or just a lover. IE can you speak to Homer

3) Why leave out the extra part of your Role.

[ShaggyDan]

I have already answered 1 and 2. I do not know who they are, nor am I masoned.

As for 3 I thought it was standard to not publicise bulletproof. Means I might be a target by scum and absorb a kill. If I out it (which unfortunatly is now the case) it means scum won't target me and instead will make a successful kill on someone else.

[pershy]

Wow, really guys? Lets just have another look at this:

1. We are lynching me over a guilty result that he himself has confirmed.
Well - actually I didn't think safari should have had a guilty result from me but I guess as I became 3rd party that's why he did. He could be lying though.
2. There is no proof he is even groundskeeper willie. IF he is there is still no way to verify his night actions because he has claimed cult! A seperate win condition means his motives and actions can not be trusted. He is obviously going to say whatever he can to stay alive.
Groundskeeper willie is a fairly central character and a good one (i.e. not burns or the cult leader guy). It could be countered. As I said I started off as town and then came clean about becoming convereted as my win condition became virtually impossible. I don't think scum would do that. Of course I would like to stay alive a bit longer but obviously I will be lynched sooner or later. We have already established that only if I survive with one other person alive can I win and that's not gonna happen. I would like the opportunity to stay alive a bit longer though to use my powers.
3. The only thing that suggests his claim of cult is truthful is the hiding situation. Which has been presented by an unclaimed player as well as having the possibility of that action being tampered with. There is still a chance the.whole claim is BS and he is mafia scum.
That's true. I believe the hider result though. He hinted on D2 that I was innocent and you said you couldn't see why. That's why I inverstigated you.
4. If he is cult there is no guarantee that another night alive won't help him achieve his WC. Yes; he says he can't win. Of course he would say that to stay alive!
How is that possible if there is only one of me and I can't recruit?
5. A lot of you are saying lynch him later. What do you do when I flip town and you've wasted your chance to expose him now? If you hold off lynching him when that could have saved a townie now it is very poor play. If you're going to lynch him later why not do it now to get at least some of the unknowns out of the situation.
I'm pretty sure that you'll flip scum. I have claimed fully and am therefore not an unknown. Sure I could be lying but why would I lie about this? I came clean completely when it became practically hopeless for me. You have a great claim though it's true. I would not expect Marge to be scum, but with lovers 1 is scum and the other is not. So it's possible that you are the scum lover. I would probably unvote you if it wasn't for my guilty result. I already mention that my result could be faulty. If the busdriver swapped you with someone I think they should come forward. I don't know why someone would frame you - seems unlikely to me. You were quite low profile on D1 and 2. Of course you just say I'm lying and serving my own interests etc not town's so that doesn't help your case in my eyes cause I know i?m not lying.
We have a guilty result plus he admitted he is guilty. It doesn't get much more black and white. He cannot be trusted.
There you go doin it again
No matter what way you cut it there is a lot of IF's in all the reasoning behind lynching me. Other than that I don't know what else to say. The part of my role I left out was a one-shot bulletproof that I thought would be better to not reveal, but seeing how everyone is trusting the cult recruitee's guilty instead of the cop's I guess it doesn't matter.

So you are a bullet proof town lover? Why do you think I got a guilty result on you - just cause I'm lying?
I think Shaggy makes a good defense but I don't believe him.

[Djfireside]

I have already answered 1 and 2. I do not know who they are, nor am I masoned.

As for 3 I thought it was standard to not publicise bulletproof. Means I might be a target by scum and absorb a kill. If I out it (which unfortunatly is now the case) it means scum won't target me and instead will make a successful kill on someone else.

Im concerned with this claim that you do not know who your lover is as that makes things a bit strange. Lovers are giving the other so that they are forced to work together and work at a common goal and having a unteethered lover just makes this a little odd but leaves me wondering as to the validity of your claim.

Pershy is on the kill list either way. Im waffling for good reason on this one.

[ShaggyDan]

@pershy: In response to your response: a lot of your statements are only true if you can be trusted. You say you are groundskeeper willie. You say you investigated me. You say you are cult. You say you can't recruit any more and there are no others. All of these statements can't be trusted. If you could recruit you would definitely lie and say you couldn't. If you weren't cult you could use this as an obscure defence, giving you more bearing than just discounting a cop. You may be using the investigation as a random guess in the dark to try and stay alive another day and give yourself cred if it turned out right. You may not be Willie and be some whole other nasty role. Ultimatly though a lot of this is irrelevant.

One fact remains; no matter what you say Wiggum has a guilty on you. I believe that result. Now you may be telling the truth and I may have been framed or busdriven. I think the more logical explanation here is that you are lying and clutching at straws to stay alive. It seems to convienent you don't have a N1 action, also convienent you happened to use your investigate last night instead of something else. I'm going with the principle of Occam's razor on this one.

@DJ: I assume it was for balance reasons. I've seen lovers come in all sorts of pairings with all kinds of stipulations. I've seen scum pairings, town pairings, I've seen them get powers after one dies, I've seen unknown lovers as well as lovers that were told they were but actually weren't. It's a cool role that adds a lot of balancing options.

[ShaggyDan]

Oops forgot to add; http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lover

[TheForgivenOne]

There's one thing I still don't get Shaggy. If you're Lover with Homer, why wouldn't he out to confirm you? Even if you don't know who he is, he should know he's Homer.

[ShaggyDan]

There's one thing I still don't get Shaggy. If you're Lover with Homer, why wouldn't he out to confirm you? Even if you don't know who he is, he should know he's Homer.

Well since outing my second part of my role it would make sense for protection. As for before that I honestly don't know. If he was waiting to see how the whole thing played out it seems a bit reckless... Unless he has more information about this situation? I've shared everything I know.

[pmchugh]

Usually one lover is scum anyway, especially if you do not know each other. In that case, we must kill you to win.

Also the guilty result on pershy makes it difficult for him to be a lyncher. I am happy with this.

vote shaggy if I wasn't already.

[Djfireside]

UNVOTE

I thought we were going off what Wiggum said and not what Pershy said.

[Djfireside]

I misread the whole thing and while I am having trouble believing Shaggy I need to think about this because well a lover dying makes me unhappy since we would also lose another. I tend to not believe their claim but based on how the scenes have read there are a few things going through my head.

I believe there to be a Town Vig so we have extra firepower for what we decide as long as they pay attention and dont randomly choose. Pershy is self admitted guilty and judging by other games normally recruited people lose their roles so he shouldnt have a bead on Shaggy. However, I dont believe shaggy so leads to a conundrum.

Either way pershy should be targetted off and if they are telling the truth and do come up Willy as a JOAT then there is a good chance Shaggy is guilty and not just being outted as another route away from Pershy.

As for Homer, either they are not coming forward for not being outted or maybe they cant confirm that shaggy is a lover or not because they werent told?!? If pershy held on to his powers after a recruit then the setup is a bit off the norm.

So I VOTE Pershy and based on their result FOS Shaggy for the alternative death