DACA

[Dukasaur]

I'm not sure if flipping one co-conspirator against another counts as a form of tyranny.

There is a reason why we investigate crime and not people. Do you honestly think that if the power of the Federal Government was unleashed on you they would not find some time in your life where you might have been in violation of a federal law ... after all there are so many of them. Such witch hunt intimidation tactics when applied to political opponents (and Mueller is nothing more than a Clinton stooge armed with a plethora of Clinton lawyers)

Oh, I have ZERO doubt that a thorough investigation of my life would turn up some crimes. After all, I committed them... (Luckily, most are past the statutes of limitations. )

The point is, nobody really cares what I did in my past, because in my present I'm both insignificant and relatively law-abiding.

On the other hand, if in the present I was working for some kind of criminal outfit, I fully expect that competing criminal outfits and the cops would try to find ways to break me, and that one of those ways would be to dredge up whatever dirt they could on me. That's the price of playing at the high-stakes table: the higher you go, the dirtier it gets. If you want to play $100 million games of international intrigue, you know damn well that there's nothing sacred at that table.

[jusplay4fun]

bernie, what radical website do you read to get these crazy ideas?

did you get leeched and now you are out for revenge?

JP

As far as "3" is concerned, we have to many rich folks on Corporate welfare. I say strip these leeches of society of their American citizenship and send them to the country where they have their offshore bank accounts and Corporate offices to avoid paying their fair share in taxes.

[Bernie Sanders]

bernie, what radical website do you read to get these crazy ideas?

did you get leeched and now you are out for revenge?

JP

As far as "3" is concerned, we have to many rich folks on Corporate welfare. I say strip these leeches of society of their American citizenship and send them to the country where they have their offshore bank accounts and Corporate offices to avoid paying their fair share in taxes.

I'm not here to discuss adult conversations with my illegitimate son.

[tzor]

Oh, I have ZERO doubt that a thorough investigation of my life would turn up some crimes. After all, I committed them... (Luckily, most are past the statutes of limitations. )

It's a good thing Maxine Waters isn't on ConquerClub, she would be leading the movement to impeach you even as I type this.

[jusplay4fun]

bernie, you have been and continue to be FULL of SHIT and lies and STOOPID comments. Please go take a DUMP, you idiot.

you have yet to learn how STOOOOPID you are. you are so SAD and Pathetic lttle man, full of sadness and full of hate, b

JP

bernie, what radical website do you read to get these crazy ideas?

did you get leeched and now you are out for revenge?

JP

As far as "3" is concerned, we have to many rich folks on Corporate welfare. I say strip these leeches of society of their American citizenship and send them to the country where they have their offshore bank accounts and Corporate offices to avoid paying their fair share in taxes.

I'm not here to discuss adult conversations with my illegitimate son.

[Bernie Sanders]

Hush my boy, I can understand your anger that I wasn't around in your youth.

Take some solace in the fact that your Mom and I had a "special moment"
and created a truly "special baby"

[jusplay4fun]

bernie, is that a picture of yourself? the intelligence of THAT person is SURELY a close match of YOURS.

and NOW we KNOW what little STOOOPID bernie looks like; and at least you smiled, for a change. bernie, you are such an imbecile, and this photo of YOU proves it, hands down.

Go along and find your little friends to play with. AND no dinner for you 2nite, little b; you are such a BAD and STOOOPID boy. Grow up and try to play NICe, for a change, you ugly TROLL. and you must be constipated still; notice the contorted face in his photo.....

JP

Hush my boy, I can understand your anger that I wasn't around in your youth.

Take some solace in the fact that your Mom and I had a "special moment"
and created a truly "special baby"

[Bernie Sanders]

[jusplay4fun]

another great example of a wonderful rebuttal by bernie.

NOT.

This shows bernie's level of mental ability: very low.

Has bernie even posted one comment on immigration showing any intelligence?

JP4Fun

[jusplay4fun]

Let me now IGNORE bernie's poor attempts at insult and return to the topic of this thread: DACA and immigration, especially ILLEGAL immigration.

I want to say some of the best citizens of the USA are LEGAL immigrants who arrive here for the promise and opportunities of freedom and the chance to earn what hard work will offer. In order to benefit from society, one needs to embrace those ideals and strive to be a good citizen.

And yes, peaceful protest is part of that citizenship, something that Trump seems to forget. His comments, which I will attribute to be an effort at unification, instead have created more divisiveness and vitriolic speech and "knee jerk" reactions.

JP

[jusplay4fun]

I think that many who engage in business (as in owning a business) have been confronted with matters of ethics that can lead to questionable actions. I think that many of us can be investigated and there are "skeletons" in many closets that could cause an investigation to cause us to be at least "uncomfortable." I had a good friend who had an accounting business, did well at it, had government contracts, GOT investigated by the Feds, and LATER committed suicide. I do not know all the facts, but I think he was caught in a web that got him in ethical "pretzel" or conundrum that he could not escape.

JP

I'm not sure if flipping one co-conspirator against another counts as a form of tyranny.

There is a reason why we investigate crime and not people. Do you honestly think that if the power of the Federal Government was unleashed on you they would not find some time in your life where you might have been in violation of a federal law ... after all there are so many of them. Such witch hunt intimidation tactics when applied to political opponents (and Mueller is nothing more than a Clinton stooge armed with a plethora of Clinton lawyers)

Oh, I have ZERO doubt that a thorough investigation of my life would turn up some crimes. After all, I committed them... (Luckily, most are past the statutes of limitations. )

The point is, nobody really cares what I did in my past, because in my present I'm both insignificant and relatively law-abiding.

On the other hand, if in the present I was working for some kind of criminal outfit, I fully expect that competing criminal outfits and the cops would try to find ways to break me, and that one of those ways would be to dredge up whatever dirt they could on me. That's the price of playing at the high-stakes table: the higher you go, the dirtier it gets. If you want to play $100 million games of international intrigue, you know damn well that there's nothing sacred at that table.

[jusplay4fun]

Let's get back to the topic and discuss DACA and not issues that are not even tangential to the issues of immigration, especially illegal immigration.

Of course LEGAL immigration is GREAT for the USA.

The mass migration to Europe has created massive problems in Greece and other countries in Eastern Europe and in Italy, too.

JP

Duk,

Your statement is why I want to encourage dialogue on this matter, especially on being employed, being a student, and criminal record. I too am not a lawyer, but I hopefully offered a "common sense" criteria, that can be further defined by lawyers.

Hey, doesn't Congress have a HUGE group of lawyers who need more WORK? I am not sure I can trust them, but they need to look into this and offer SOME REASONABLE ideas and then craft a REASONABLE plan.

And do their JOB and do this LEGALLY, unlike the former CONSTITUTIONAL Lawyer who did DACA ILLEGALLY. (I will concede he that LIKELY tried to do something since Congress LIKELY blocked his attempts at reforms and a law or legislation. I am not a news junkie that reads ALL about this.)

At least President Trump gave Congress 6 months to come up with SOMETHING, like a law or legislation.

JP

One of the problems of DACA is the criteria which you summarized as "no criminal record." It is, in fact, "Not been convicted of a felony or serious misdemeanors, or three or more other misdemeanors." Unfortunately, given the state of the court system on both sides of the bench a lot of DACA people being brought to trial on felony charges are plea bargaining (well their lawyers are) the charges down to misdemeanors in order to keep them in the country.

The current law going through congress is even worse in allowing criminals to stay in the country. Crime and immigration: What's in the Dream Act

I don't know anything about this topic other than what I just read in your link, so forgive me if I'm wrong. However, it seems to me they're drawing a line at 90 days incarceration for something to be treated as a serious crime. Given the draconian sentences that are usually handed out in the U.S., I imagine an offense that gets less than 90 days is pretty trivial indeed. Something along the lines of public drunkenness. I'm not a lawyer but I've read a lot of lawyers' memoirs and I watch a lot of true-crime shows, and I constantly see U.S. courts giving out multi-year sentences for really trivial assaults and petty thefts. So, 90 days may actually result in disqualifying anyone who's done something more drastic than pissing in a parking lot.

[Dukasaur]

Let's get back to the topic and discuss DACA and not issues that are not even tangential to the issues of immigration, especially illegal immigration.

What, specifically, is there that you want to discuss about it?

Of course LEGAL immigration is GREAT for the USA.

I don't see any reason for making a distinction. Something is illegal if it's the whim of the ruling party to make it so. Sometimes they have good reasons for making something illegal; other times not so much.

If immigration is good, then it's good regardless of whether the ruling party chooses to make it legal or not. If your laws are not working, it may be time to change them.

Your country, like all rich countries, needs to constantly import cheap labour. This isn't something unique to you. In all rich countries, people who are born in the country grow up with the expectation of living in comfort and having a comfortable office job. Nobody dreams of growing up to be a tomato picker, but the tomatoes still have to be picked. So, people from poor countries who are desperate enough that picking tomatoes seems like a great opportunity have to constantly be imported.

I've gone into great detail about this in previous discussions in this forum. I'm not enthused about doing all that typing all over again. Sorry, not trying to be an asshole, but there's no return on the time invested.

The mass migration to Europe has created massive problems in Greece and other countries in Eastern Europe and in Italy, too.

Mainly it's a problem because there's too much immigration all at once. That always creates trouble. It will fade with time. Rich countries need immigration like farmers need rain, but like farmers then don't always get to choose when it shows up. Sometimes it's a flood, and that creates some short-term havoc, but it's important to keep your eye on the ball and remember than this too shall pass.

[Thorthoth]

The best way to incorporate new members to a society is to bring them in as orphaned infants. The parents and their bad habits need to be dispatched before entry.
That's the way we do it with chimpanzees.

[tzor]

Of course LEGAL immigration is GREAT for the USA.

Not exactly, but Legal immigration already has provisions that trans-legal methods do not. Basically the fundamental problem is that you can have open borders, or a welfare state but you can't have both at the same time. Legal immigration places a restriction that people aren't coming over and immediately getting on the welfare rolls because you need to secure a job before you come here.

This is the landmine one needs to walk through when discussing DACA. It would be a lot easier if we just did away with welfare. Then we wouldn't need immigration in the first place.

[jusplay4fun]

where are all your previously posted words of wisdom that I can read?

And If you fail to see a distinction between legal and illegal, then you missed a major point. I do not think it is ONLY about cheap labor; your analysis is myopic, IMO.

JP

Let's get back to the topic and discuss DACA and not issues that are not even tangential to the issues of immigration, especially illegal immigration.

What, specifically, is there that you want to discuss about it?

Of course LEGAL immigration is GREAT for the USA.

I don't see any reason for making a distinction. Something is illegal if it's the whim of the ruling party to make it so. Sometimes they have good reasons for making something illegal; other times not so much.

If immigration is good, then it's good regardless of whether the ruling party chooses to make it legal or not. If your laws are not working, it may be time to change them.

Your country, like all rich countries, needs to constantly import cheap labour. This isn't something unique to you. In all rich countries, people who are born in the country grow up with the expectation of living in comfort and having a comfortable office job. Nobody dreams of growing up to be a tomato picker, but the tomatoes still have to be picked. So, people from poor countries who are desperate enough that picking tomatoes seems like a great opportunity have to constantly be imported.

I've gone into great detail about this in previous discussions in this forum. I'm not enthused about doing all that typing all over again. Sorry, not trying to be an asshole, but there's no return on the time invested.

The mass migration to Europe has created massive problems in Greece and other countries in Eastern Europe and in Italy, too.

Mainly it's a problem because there's too much immigration all at once. That always creates trouble. It will fade with time. Rich countries need immigration like farmers need rain, but like farmers then don't always get to choose when it shows up. Sometimes it's a flood, and that creates some short-term havoc, but it's important to keep your eye on the ball and remember than this too shall pass.

[karel]

send them all back they illegal,its the law not hard to figure out,duh

[Dukasaur]

where are all your previously posted words of wisdom that I can read?

Here, for example: https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=824&t=221914#p4900667

And If you fail to see a distinction between legal and illegal, then you missed a major point. I do not think it is ONLY about cheap labor; your analysis is myopic, IMO.

Well, you can say that, but I'll continue to disagree. What is legal and illegal is just the whim of the parasites in power. Sometimes it's for valid reasons. Other times it's just stupidity and caprice. And much of the time, it's to create boogeymen for the population to fear so the government can maintain power.

Migrant labourers are just unemployed people coming for a job. Nothing scary about that. But make them illegal and all of a sudden they become a "problem" that we can hire 10,000 cops to "solve."

[jusplay4fun]

We can agree to disagree. I key factor is that my views and yours are valid. The question is which is MORE valid?

That one is at times difficult to prove, beyond reasonable doubt.

Please realize I am NEW to this Forum and have not read every thread. THX 4 letting me know where I can read more of your ideas.

JP

where are all your previously posted words of wisdom that I can read?

Here, for example: https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=824&t=221914#p4900667

And If you fail to see a distinction between legal and illegal, then you missed a major point. I do not think it is ONLY about cheap labor; your analysis is myopic, IMO.

Well, you can say that, but I'll continue to disagree. What is legal and illegal is just the whim of the parasites in power. Sometimes it's for valid reasons. Other times it's just stupidity and caprice. And much of the time, it's to create boogeymen for the population to fear so the government can maintain power.

Migrant labourers are just unemployed people coming for a job. Nothing scary about that. But make them illegal and all of a sudden they become a "problem" that we can hire 10,000 cops to "solve."

[Dukasaur]

No problemo. I appreciate that you're a genuine and sincere poster who isn't playing games like most of the people here. Sadly, I disagree with your opinions more often than not, but I do appreciate their sincerity and core honesty.

[Bernie Sanders]

No problemo. I appreciate that you're a genuine and sincere poster who isn't playing games like most of the people here. Sadly, I disagree with your opinions more often than not, but I do appreciate their sincerity and core honesty.

My boy gets his sincerity from my side of the family. His anger issues he gets from his Mother side.

[jusplay4fun]

JP,

I appreciate that we can have an intelligent and reasonable conversation about issues and policy matters.

Most of the other Frequent Posters here are merely trolls and most of the trolls are stupid.

JP

No problemo. I appreciate that you're a genuine and sincere poster who isn't playing games like most of the people here. Sadly, I disagree with your opinions more often than not, but I do appreciate their sincerity and core honesty.

[Thorthoth]

JP,

I appreciate that we can have an intelligent and reasonable conversation about issues and policy matters.

Most of the other Frequent Posters here are merely trolls and most of the trolls are stupid.

JP

No problemo. I appreciate that you're a genuine and sincere poster who isn't playing games like most of the people here. Sadly, I disagree with your opinions more often than not, but I do appreciate their sincerity and core honesty.

Ha ha, yes indeed, I too find those 'stupid Frequent Poster-trolls to be most irksome.
(Bern, you can take you place in that long queue of infamy...)
However, jus4play and duk, it is also right to protest your all-too-frequent and humourless condemnations that stem from your thick-headed and arrogant self-rightousness.
That too is most dreary, and conducive only to forum acrimony. Please do remember this before you again attempt to self-congratulatorally feel good about yourselves.

Instead may I suggest the third path that I myself have embarked upon in which the emphasis is placed upon the erudite dissemination of art, culture and historical reflection.

[jusplay4fun]

Self-righteous? YOU, ThorThoth, are an exemplar of such attitude, with your "third" path. Sounds like crap and egotism, at least to this casual observer. All you want to do is say how great you are, how bad the forum is NOW, and HOW much better it USED TO be, so "let ME, ThorThoth be its savior." THAT is hypocrisy, ThorThoth.

And by constantly criticizing and condemning nearly everyone else in the Forum, you have become another TROLL, of the type you proclaim others to be.

Let's get back to talk about immigration and DACA. These are "not the Trolls we are looking for; move on."

At least Duk and I can agree to disagree. All you do is offer condemnation of nearly everything, except your own "noble pursuit of fighting windmills."

JP4Fun

[Bernie Sanders]

Self-righteous? YOU, ThorThoth, are an exemplar of such attitude, with your "third" path. Sounds like crap and egotism, at least to this casual observer. All you want to do is say how great you are, how bad the forum is NOW, and HOW much better it USED TO be, so "let ME, ThorThoth be its savior." THAT is hypocrisy, ThorThoth.

And by constantly criticizing and condemning nearly everyone else in the Forum, you have become another TROLL, of the type you proclaim others to be.

Let's get back to talk about immigration and DACA. These are "not the Trolls we are looking for; move on."

At least Duk and I can agree to disagree. All you do is offer condemnation of nearly everything, except your own "noble pursuit of fighting windmills."

JP4Fun

"noble pursuit of fighting windmills"

My son the poet!