The great pyramid

[betiko]

This is really truly an interesting subject.
1) what were they really meant for? Seems like a king's tomb is probably not the case
2) how are they so well aligned with the true north/ and east west axis?
3) how old is the sphynx? Given all the erosion around it... it's clearly way older than the pyramids. The face was probably reshaped
4) what will we find in the void found last week over the king's chamber?
5) are the 3 pyramids actually representing orion's belt as they have the exact same alignment?
6) what were the shafts for? It seems like they were perfectly aligned at the time with sirius and other stars. Since then, the axis of the earth has changed a bit.
7) were the egyptians descendants of other mesopotamian civilizations? The amount of knowledge they had in astronomy, physics and ingeneering had to come from way back. There are some discoveries in eastern turkey of some megalitical sites from 11600BC that are quite astonishing. It is said that the sphynx could be as old as that.


What are your thoughts on that? No alien vs predator theories please.

[2dimes]

*engineering.

Gah!

[saxitoxin]

What are your thoughts on that?

[betiko]

*engineering.

Gah!

That's an interesting one.
It comes from the old french "engigneor"; which comes from the medieval latin "ingeniator"
Nevertheless, in modern french, it's "ingénieur"... therefore closer to its latin root. In spanish we say "ingeniero".

Therefore, the weird english spelling is due to some missleading old french word. Now you know why I spell it like that

[waauw]

It's a Goa'uld spaceship.

[2dimes]

Therefore, the weird english spelling is due to some missleading old french word. Now you know why I spell it like that

I miss spell thing for lots of reasons. Partially because English spelling is goofy. Trough? Seriously?

[betiko]

What are your thoughts on that?

I'm pretty sure scientists never said they were built by the aliens, could he send a link on that one?
That's some pretty heavy statement... scientists who want to make us believe the pyramids were built by aliens when in fact it was god
Also... given how small the chambers are, there were possibly easier and more convenient ways to store grain. But it's fantastic to see that in your country such bright minds can talk this AAA level shit to crowds and they all buy it.

[betiko]

Therefore, the weird english spelling is due to some missleading old french word. Now you know why I spell it like that

I miss spell thing for lots of reasons. Partially because English spelling is goofy. Trough? Seriously?

If you find a spelling goofy, google is always there to explain to you where it comes from. I hate simplified spellings.
Both french and english have never oversimplified their spelling and you can understand the etymology of the words.
Spanish has oversimplified its spelling, and it's often a nightmare. Words that present a logic towards their latin or greek origin, that you will find in the french and english spelling, will almost always be simplified in spanish. Fucking lazy bastards.

[mrswdk]

1) why not?
2) the sun, poo poo. NESW compass points didn’t exist back when the pyramids were built so if they were aligned to anything it wasn’t the compass

[jonesthecurl]

5) No they don't. They're roughly in a straight line, so are the stars in the belt. This nonsense was poo-poohed some while ago.Including by the guy who made the claim in the first place.

[betiko]

1) why not?
2) the sun, poo poo. NESW compass points didn’t exist back when the pyramids were built so if they were aligned to anything it wasn’t the compass

1) it just doesn t make much sense that a tomb could be designed this way... and that in the next dynasties there could be such crappy pyramids... with proper chambers. The arguments I ve heard about the pyramid actually not being a tomb are quite convincing, although what it is instead remains unclear and no theory has captivated me enough.

2) dude, the alignment is more than perfect, to the hundreadth of a degree or something like that. It s something we would really have problems achieving nowadays with all our technology. The proportions too are related to the parallel it's been built on with the distance to the north pole with an incredible precision. Same with the alignment of the pyramids compared to the orion belt.... these guys were fucking amazing.

[mrswdk]

1) designed in what way? big and pointy? the Taj Mahal was built just to honor an emperor’s wife when she died. Some egotistical pharaohs would have been plenty capable of having a big pile of stones made in their own honor

2) like I said, north east south and west weren’t concepts at the time the pyramids were built. if the pyramids were deliberately aligned to anything it would have been sunrise. either that or they weren’t aligned to anything at all and their positioning is just coincidence

Does this thread mean you’re becoming a certified tin foil hat or something?

[betiko]

5) No they don't. They're roughly in a straight line, so are the stars in the belt. This nonsense was poo-poohed some while ago.Including by the guy who made the claim in the first place.

The thing with the pyramids, is that there are a lot of nuthead theories out there. You might be right. What i heard is that the 3 pyramids are not in an exact straight line, and have sizes matching the intensity of the 3 stars of orion's belt. Maybe it's wrong.
I haven't measured it obviously... I'm just looking at some stuff, and not buying everything i hear, but still trying to keep an open mind about all this.
The fact that the earth has been changing its axis a slightly in over 5000 years is something that sounds pretty credible to me.

The thing is, that the pyramids rely on many sciences. I don't think we can trust an egyptologist alone, because he will lack of knowledge in certain fields.

I head the scientists that found the void on top of the king's chamber last week (aparently it's as huge as the main galery leading to the king's chamber) and the guys were saying that all they could tell was that they found that void. They didn't have the competence to bring some theories on the table, because it's not their field.
Well it feels like somethimes egyptologists speak too much out of their ass and are not open to discussion... As if this civilization had already revealed all its mysteries.

[waauw]

7) were the egyptians descendants of other mesopotamian civilizations? The amount of knowledge they had in astronomy, physics and ingeneering had to come from way back. There are some discoveries in eastern turkey of some megalitical sites from 11600BC that are quite astonishing. It is said that the sphynx could be as old as that.

Don't forget the Mayans! Nor the Yonaguni formation!

Kimura first estimated that the monument must be at least 10,000 years old (8,000 BCE), dating it to a period when it would have been above water.[12] In a report given to the 21st Pacific Science Congress in 2007, he revised this estimate and dated it to 2,000 to 3,000 years ago because the sea level then was close to current levels. He suggests that after construction, tectonic activity caused it to be submerged below sea level.[3] Archaeologist Richard J. Pearson believes this to be unlikely.[9] Kimura believes he can identify a pyramid, castles, roads, monuments and a stadium. Kimura has also surmised that the site may be a remnant of the mythical lost continent of Mu.[3]

Click image to enlarge.

[Dukasaur]

1) what were they really meant for? Seems like a king's tomb is probably not the case

i think you underestimate the hubris of kings. Not just a tomb as in a place to hold a body, but a tomb/monument, to say to the world, "hey, I'm the greatest there ever was!" Or maybe, “I will build a great pyramid – and nobody builds pyramids better than me, believe me – and I’ll build it very inexpensively. I will build a great, great pyramid on the left bank, and I will make Kush pay for that pyramid. Mark my words.”

2) how are they so well aligned with the true north/ and east west axis?

The Egyptians were very good at geometry and cartography. The Greeks refined it a bit and took all the credit, but the early work came from Egyptians. Aligning something according to the cardinal direction was child's play for them.

6) what were the shafts for? It seems like they were perfectly aligned at the time with sirius and other stars. Since then, the axis of the earth has changed a bit.

That's entirely possible. The Egyptians were very fond of astronomy. It seems very likely that religion/astronomy/astrology were completely intertwined. If the shafts did align with Sirius or some other prominent star, I would not at all be surprised to find that there was a good astrological reason for that.

7) were the egyptians descendants of other mesopotamian civilizations? The amount of knowledge they had in astronomy, physics and ingeneering had to come from way back. There are some discoveries in eastern turkey of some megalitical sites from 11600BC that are quite astonishing. It is said that the sphynx could be as old as that.

All of the civilizations in the Near East were related, knew about each other, and traded with each other. I don't know which exact invention came from which exact place -- I doubt if anyone knows with absolute certainty -- but there's no doubt that there was a general milieu of knowledge that they all operated in.

[jonesthecurl]

5) No they don't. They're roughly in a straight line, so are the stars in the belt. This nonsense was poo-poohed some while ago.Including by the guy who made the claim in the first place.

The thing with the pyramids, is that there are a lot of nuthead theories out there. You might be right. What i heard is that the 3 pyramids are not in an exact straight line, and have sizes matching the intensity of the 3 stars of orion's belt. Maybe it's wrong.
I haven't measured it obviously... I'm just looking at some stuff, and not buying everything i hear, but still trying to keep an open mind about all this.
The fact that the earth has been changing its axis a slightly in over 5000 years is something that sounds pretty credible to me.

The thing is, that the pyramids rely on many sciences. I don't think we can trust an egyptologist alone, because he will lack of knowledge in certain fields.

I head the scientists that found the void on top of the king's chamber last week (aparently it's as huge as the main galery leading to the king's chamber) and the guys were saying that all they could tell was that they found that void. They didn't have the competence to bring some theories on the table, because it's not their field.
Well it feels like somethimes egyptologists speak too much out of their ass and are not open to discussion... As if this civilization had already revealed all its mysteries.

They don't know what it is yet, cos they haven't been in it. Doesn't mean it won't make sense if they do.
The Great Pyramid IS impressive as hell, though. I've been inside, to the burial chamber.
My Dad tells me that, in a less sensitive age, he put his initials on the top of it, having climbed the outside.

[tzor]

The first thing about the pyramids is you need to consider them all in context, and it's a complex set of context.
Way back around 2600 BC they started getting the idea of making step pyramids smooth. Step periods were common in the third dynasty but this is now the fourth dynasty.

Here is the Pyramid of Djoser around 2650 BC.

So anyway we get back to 2600 BC and the idea is a smashing ... oh crap ... it's not. Look you just can't scrap a pyramid half way through construction so they just cut the size short by changing the angle.

The Bent Pyramidaround 2600 BC. (Slope 43°22', top - 54°27'44, bottom)

Finally we get to 2550 BC and the Great Pyramid, the first in the Giza complex.

The great pyramid (Slope 51°52'±2')

So how were the pyramids built? Trial and error. Very expensive error.

Was there a grand design to the Giza pyramids? Probably and why not use the heavens as a guide? (It's probably as accurate a placement as the faces on Mt Rushmore ... yes one is placed oddly because it's proper place was unstable.)

Were they built as tombs? Of course not. They were public works projects. There are whole cities in China that are built but never occupied because they needed people doing things like building cities. The whole economy that went around the construction of one of these things was far greater than just the impact of having a final resting place. It was an entire community of workers, priests, and officials. It was an entire city of people and an entire city economy. In fact, a pyramid was the last place you wanted to be; to have a huge sign pointing down at you saying "HERE IS MY FINAL RESTING PLACE. DESECRATE MY CORPSE HERE!" Once the economic novelty of such buildings had passed and a number of the older one started to be robbed, people went back to the good old days of hiding your resting place where no one could possibly find you *but still they did).

[DoomYoshi]

inb4 warmongerer

What are your thoughts on that?

Is that the Republican presidential candidate?

2) like I said, north east south and west weren’t concepts at the time the pyramids were built. if the pyramids were deliberately aligned to anything it would have been sunrise. either that or they weren’t aligned to anything at all and their positioning is just coincidence

Lodestones are pretty ancient. There's quite a bit of presumption in that statement. Either way, the Tropic of Cancer runs right through Egypt and led to some of the earliest calculations of the size of the Earth.

[riskllama]

lol, yes. Ben Carson : former narcoleptic brain surgeon/republican presidential also ran, current director of Housing & Urban Development...
what could possibly go wrong?

[Thorthoth]

Yes, this was basically what ancient Egypt was really like.

[betiko]

Yes, this was basically what ancient Egypt was really like.

Lol ho do you know amanda lear? People in france say she's a man... well she s french and she s been co-host in a famous radio program for 30 or 40 years that is a sort of trivia where they also tell jokes... the kind of program all the taxi drivers listen to.
She started as Salvador Dali's muse. Didn't know she ever was a singer.

[riskllama]

lol, my first thought was :

[betiko]

The first thing about the pyramids is you need to consider them all in context, and it's a complex set of context.
Way back around 2600 BC they started getting the idea of making step pyramids smooth. Step periods were common in the third dynasty but this is now the fourth dynasty.

Here is the Pyramid of Djoser around 2650 BC.

So anyway we get back to 2600 BC and the idea is a smashing ... oh crap ... it's not. Look you just can't scrap a pyramid half way through construction so they just cut the size short by changing the angle.

The Bent Pyramidaround 2600 BC. (Slope 43°22', top - 54°27'44, bottom)

Finally we get to 2550 BC and the Great Pyramid, the first in the Giza complex.

The great pyramid (Slope 51°52'±2')

So how were the pyramids built? Trial and error. Very expensive error.

Was there a grand design to the Giza pyramids? Probably and why not use the heavens as a guide? (It's probably as accurate a placement as the faces on Mt Rushmore ... yes one is placed oddly because it's proper place was unstable.)

Were they built as tombs? Of course not. They were public works projects. There are whole cities in China that are built but never occupied because they needed people doing things like building cities. The whole economy that went around the construction of one of these things was far greater than just the impact of having a final resting place. It was an entire community of workers, priests, and officials. It was an entire city of people and an entire city economy. In fact, a pyramid was the last place you wanted to be; to have a huge sign pointing down at you saying "HERE IS MY FINAL RESTING PLACE. DESECRATE MY CORPSE HERE!" Once the economic novelty of such buildings had passed and a number of the older one started to be robbed, people went back to the good old days of hiding your resting place where no one could possibly find you *but still they did).

To build the great pyramid, there are so many logistical problems than the older pyramids you're showing... so many more blocks required, and after a certain height, there is no ramp ou can use with an angle smooth enough... and there is no way they built it during the life span of a single king... it had to be done over several generations