And now the Catholic Counterpoint to 500 years ago.

[Bernie Sanders]

The best thing that ever came out of the Catholic Church was the sexy uniforms they made the girls wear.

Now they call them stripper outfits!

[tzor]

The best thing that ever came out of the Catholic Church was the sexy uniforms they made the girls wear.

I'm going to call you on that one. Traditional uniforms are generally well below the knee.with a large hem to allow for additional growth of the child.

Most of the stripper suits are variations of the classic Japan outfit (the Sailor Moon type uniforms).

[waauw]

If you mean Marx, then you should read him.

I'll pass on that. Nothing good had ever came from 19th century London.

Maybe you should try reading him. His solutions are perhaps extreme and wrong, but his analyses was spot on. He is deservedly one of the greatest economists in history.

[tzor]

Maybe you should try reading him. His solutions are perhaps extreme and wrong, but his analyses was spot on. He is deservedly one of the greatest economists in history.

Criticisms of Marxism

According to Leszek Kołakowski, the laws of dialectics at the very base of Marxism are fundamentally flawed: some are "truisms with no specific Marxist content", others "philosophical dogmas that cannot be proved by scientific means", yet others just "nonsense"; some Marxist "laws" are vague and can be interpreted differently, but these interpretations generally fall into one of the aforementioned categories of flaws as well.

What Marx accomplished was to produce such a comprehensive, dramatic, and fascinating vision that it could withstand innumerable empirical contradictions, logical refutations, and moral revulsions at its effects. The Marxian vision took the overwhelming complexity of the real world and made the parts fall into place, in a way that was intellectually exhilarating and conferred such a sense of moral superiority that opponents could be simply labelled and dismissed as moral lepers or blind reactionaries. Marxism was – and remains – a mighty instrument for the acquisition and maintenance of political power.

The Austrian School of economics charges Marx's economic system with being based on the classical labour theory of value. It argues this fundamental theory of classical economics is false, and prefers the subsequent and modern theory of value the subjective theory of value put forward by Carl Menger in his book Principles of Economics. The Austrian School of Economics was not alone in criticizing the Marxian and classical belief in the labor theory of value. British economist Alfred Marshall attacked Marx saying, "It is not true that the spinning of yarn in a factory ... is the product of the labour of the operatives. It is the product of their labour, together with that of the employer and subordinate managers, and of the capital employed."

John Maynard Keynes referred to Das Kapital as "an obsolete textbook which I know to be not only scientifically erroneous but without interest or application for the modern world".

[Symmetry]

You guys are arguing over a bunch of fairytales created to oppress the common man.

You know, the whole notion of oppressing the "common man" was dreamed up by an atheist for the sole purpose of oppressing the common man.

If you mean Marx, then you should read him.

This is terrible advice.

It'd be better to own a pet giraffe.

I'll pass on that. Nothing good had ever came from 19th century London.

Weird that you both hate the guy to the point that you're afraid of reading him.

[tzor]

It'd be better to own a pet giraffe.

Actually owning a pet giraffe is a good way to start a petting zoo.

[tzor]

Weird that you both hate the guy to the point that you're afraid of reading him.

I'm not afraid, I don't have the time.

Speaking of which I actually have "Philip Dru Administrator: A Story of Tomorrow" on my phone's Amazon Kindle. I think I read a few pages. It reminds me of why there are famous people out there who write worse than I do.

(Speaking of which I probably need to rewrite Thorium Land because Chelsea didn't become Mayor of New York this year.)

[Symmetry]

Weird that you both hate the guy to the point that you're afraid of reading him.

I'm not afraid, I don't have the time.

Speaking of which I actually have "Philip Dru Administrator: A Story of Tomorrow" on my phone's Amazon Kindle. I think I read a few pages. It reminds me of why there are famous people out there who write worse than I do.

(Speaking of which I probably need to rewrite Thorium Land because Chelsea didn't become Mayor of New York this year.)

If you don't like Marx, you really should take the time to figure out what he actually said, rather than take second hand sources who probably haven't read him either.

I'm generally wary of people who hate ideas that they don't have time to understand. The Communist Manisfesto is a quick read, if you read nothing else by Marx (or Engels).

At the very least, you'll understand why it appeals to some people.

[mrswdk]

Marx is the precursor to Ayn Rand and all those other ‘no government’ libertarians. The only reason he isn’t a Tea Party folk hero is because he got branded a communist by the Anglo Saxon propaganda machine.

[Symmetry]

It's weird because Marx is such a key theorist about how Capitalism works. Not reading him is like only reading Protestant theories about the Reformation or refusing to read the Selfish Gene because you think it's heresy (an actual CC example).

People shouldn't be afraid of Marx, or Engels. Some of the most poweful nations on earth have used them and adapted them, after all.