Does China need to protect UN nations from US?

[patches70]

What fucking good is South Sudan, Malawi, Haiti, Uganda, Zambia and the Congo to us?

South-Sudan, Uganda, Zambia, Malawi and Congo are all mineral rich countries with with lots of oil, uranium, gold, etc.
Haiti is still recovering from its natural disaster some years back.

So? We can buy their minerals if they wanna exploit them. If they don't wanna exploit them, then it's none of our business.
If they are so mineral rich then they don't need any economic aid, do they? If they are so mineral rich then they can pay for shit and we don't have to give it to them for free, or worse, as bribes or to steal their mineral wealth.

And Haiti post earthquake is the same as Haiti pre earthquake. A squalor of a shithole. No amount of aid is going to help them and they fucked themselves through their own idiocy of coups, violence and governmental ineptitude and corruption. No aid for them either!
Yeah, help them in the short term after the earthquake, but as you said, that was "years back", the time for charity is over.

Hell, even CC did a Haiti fundraising deal thing a ma bob. How efficiently do you trust that money was spent? eh? Not very well I'll tell ya! Giving economic aid to them is like throwing money down a hole that has a never ending fire at the bottom. f*ck that.

[saxitoxin]

At least when we have to actually fight someone we know the Canadians will be there right with us

With what? Their navy has to be towed into battle by American tugboats and uses submarines that can't go underwater. Their air force is made-up of museum pieces that are older than the fathers of the pilots flying them. Having the ramshackle Canadian military lurching around on a battlefield, constantly breaking down and having to radio for help, would be more dangerous than it would be helpful.

[waauw]

What fucking good is South Sudan, Malawi, Haiti, Uganda, Zambia and the Congo to us?

South-Sudan, Uganda, Zambia, Malawi and Congo are all mineral rich countries with with lots of oil, uranium, gold, etc.
Haiti is still recovering from its natural disaster some years back.

So? We can buy their minerals if they wanna exploit them. If they don't wanna exploit them, then it's none of our business.
If they are so mineral rich then they don't need any economic aid, do they? If they are so mineral rich then they can pay for shit and we don't have to give it to them for free, or worse, as bribes or to steal their mineral wealth.

You're entering in international competition for those minerals. Everyone wants them, and the highest bidder wins. Whatever aid you send them might simply be part of the package. Not forgetting that american companies are bidding for mining and processing rights as well.

[patches70]

You're entering in international competition for those minerals. Everyone wants them, and the highest bidder wins. Whatever aid you send them might simply be part of the package. Not forgetting that american companies are bidding for mining and processing rights as well.

<sigh> Foreign aid with the intention of swaying the decision to gain access to exploit one's minerals is not "aid", it's a bribe. Which is unethical and most of the time illegal, except when governments do it.

You literally were just complaining about how the World Bank exploits these nations on the one hand and here you are basically defending it. The World Bank does their thing to bring "investment" into these mineral rich backward countries and ends up all the wealth flows out of the country. Their people suffer while their leaders get rich off the kickbacks and the wealth the country had is acquired for pennies on the dollar, hence economic hitmen.

[patches70]

At least when we have to actually fight someone we know the Canadians will be there right with us

With what? Their navy has to be towed into battle by American tugboats and uses submarines that can't go underwater. Their air force is made-up of museum pieces that are older than the fathers of the pilots flying them. Having the ramshackle Canadian military lurching around on a battlefield, constantly breaking down and having to radio for help, would be more dangerous than it would be helpful.

Aww, we don't need their navy, or their subs, or their air force, we just need bodies. Meat shields to soak up bullets. Canadians can fill that role quite well me thinks. We certainly don't want to get our own guys killed!

[mrswdk]

China would never use Canadian citizens in such a callous way. Not least because China would never start the war in the first place. Protect Canadian children, vote China.

[waauw]

You're entering in international competition for those minerals. Everyone wants them, and the highest bidder wins. Whatever aid you send them might simply be part of the package. Not forgetting that american companies are bidding for mining and processing rights as well.

<sigh> Foreign aid with the intention of swaying the decision to gain access to exploit one's minerals is not "aid", it's a bribe. Which is unethical and most of the time illegal, except when governments do it.

Which is exactly my point. It's not that nations are evil, but it's simply how the world works. Pull back the so-called 'aid', and you will feel the repercussions or at least your domestic businesses will.

[mrswdk]

Yes, those poor African and European nations being bulled by America may well feel repercussions as America tries to bully them for defying its will. Luckily, win-win cooperation with China will ensure those repercussions are not just minimized but completely reversed by the supreme and superior economic friendship of the Chinese civilization state.

1.4 billion > 330 million

Tiny America sucks, massive China rocks!!!!

[DirtyDishSoap]

Funny how you think China doesn't bully any other nations and is some beacon of hope, when clearly they give only two shits about themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/10/world/asia/indonesia-south-china-sea-military-buildup.html

This actually dates back to around 2012. Indonesia refusing to roll over for China where the claim is clearly well outside of Chinese waters.

Hooray for Indonesia and having backbone against one of the most oppressive governments to exist today. Huzzah!
Hooray for India as well for not putting up with China's bullshit!

[mrswdk]

China and some neighboring countries have overlapping territorial claims and are resolving them through dialogue (just as those countries all have their own territorial disputes with each other, that are being resolved through dialogue).

That's totally different to standing up in the UN and threatening horrible reprisals against anyone who dares defy you.

[Bernie Sanders]

Thank you Trump for ruining American interests around the world. Now get that thing out of you mouth, it belongs to Putin!

[DirtyDishSoap]

China and some neighboring countries have overlapping territorial claims and are resolving them through dialogue (just as those countries all have their own territorial disputes with each other, that are being resolved through dialogue).

That's totally different to standing up in the UN and threatening horrible reprisals against anyone who dares defy you.

So I guess a show of military force is dialogue?

Let's not mince words, it's a land grab, pure and simple. You can clearly see that it's outside of Chinese water.

China = Asia's bully.

What a wonderful government.

[mrswdk]

@Bernie

Trump has done nothing except make explicit what was implicit under Obama and sort-of-explicit/implicit under Bush: America will try and crush you if you dare try act as anything other than its pawn.

Thankfully this is a new age. Until now, all the large world powers have been nations that have only ever known what it is like to be the most powerful (America, UK, France, Germany etc.). They have consequently had few qualms about killing, starving and enslaving the rest of the world to their profit. Now, new nations are rising and acquiring power that have first hand and recent knowledge of how heinous it is to suffer under imperialist aggression (China, Russia, India, Brazil, South Africa, etc.). BRICS and ASEAN alone account for about half of the world's population and 30%+ of its GDP. The day is upon us that the bullies find themselves shorn of power and unable to bully, with their one-time punch bags so swollen in stature that they are eclipsed by them. And those one time punch bags want something better for the world: a world without bullies.

This day is a brighter day for all of humankind!

@DDS

Sailing ships around a region that everyone agrees China has a right to sail ships around is not a display of military force. It is sailing.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Okay, don't click the link, fair enough, hard to be a fan boy when someone is painting your country in a different light.

The two countries had three maritime skirmishes in 2016 involving warning shots, including one in which Indonesian warships seized a Chinese fishing boat and its crew.

Clearly, not a show of force.

That's just 2016 alone. It doesn't account for 2012-2015.

After the third skirmish, in June 2016, China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement in which it claimed for the first time that its controversial nine-dash line included “traditional fishing grounds” within Indonesia’s exclusive economic zone.

So it's okay to trespass? Just want to be clear on that one.

Edit - It's controversial because if you notice on the map in that link provided, it's within several different countries waters.
But hey, China doesn't bully anyone.

[mrswdk]

I did click the link. I'm just bored of reading identical articles about the tiny islands people are arguing over so I gave up after about 2 sentences.

The two countries had three maritime skirmishes in 2016 involving warning shots, including one in which Indonesian warships seized a Chinese fishing boat and its crew.

Clearly, not a show of force.[/quote]

So a boat of Chinese fishermen is shot at then captured by the Indonesian military, and your conclusion is that the Chinese are the ones using military force?

[DirtyDishSoap]

You're right, I was wrong, can't post anything relevant.

The two countries had three maritime skirmishes in 2016 involving warning shots, including one in which Indonesian warships seized a Chinese fishing boat and its crew.

Clearly, not a show of force.

So a boat of Chinese fishermen is shot at then captured by the Indonesian military, and your conclusion is that the Chinese are the ones using military force?[/quote]

WOO! I knew you'd narrow focus that. When you're clearly violating borders, then yes, it's perfectly fine to seize a ship. Which lead to the Chinese saying basically "We will sail wherever we want!".

But yeah, ignore the other two warning shots. Don't bother addressing the previous years though. Good on you.

Scoreboard:
World - 1
China - 0

[mrswdk]

>posts one example of a confrontation between China and Indonesia
>I respond to that example
>SHEESH I KNEW YOU'D FOCUS ON THAT ONE EXAMPLE THAT'S SO TYPICAL U FKN SLUT

[Dukasaur]

What we've got here is failure to communicake.

[Maxleod]

Some men you just can't reach.

[2dimes]

What we've got here is failure to communicake.

Oh oh, is someone not feeling well? Sounds like Duke's hand might be hovering over the "communicate" button...

[Dukasaur]

What we've got here is failure to communicake.

Oh oh, is someone not feeling well? Sounds like Duke's hand might be hovering over the "communicate" button...

[riskllama]

best song they ever put out.

[DoomYoshi]

Chinese Domestic Policy:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/china-jails-seller-of-vpn-services/2017/12/21/34ad99aa-e6d2-11e7-927a-e72eac1e73b6_story.html

[DirtyDishSoap]

>posts one example of a confrontation between China and Indonesia
>I respond to that example
>SHEESH I KNEW YOU'D FOCUS ON THAT ONE EXAMPLE THAT'S SO TYPICAL U FKN SLUT

Don't like the taste of your own medicine do you?