Right to offend

[warmonger1981]

If you don't understand the context of the video why would you even comment? Funny thing is you've been speculating the whole time that I live in the country outside of the inner City. I probably spent more time in the hood then you ever have. You seem like the type that would just drive through on a major highway scared to get off on any exit. You remind me of those bitches from the movie Judgement Night. One wrong turn off the highway into the hood and you're scared shitless. But you also act like people who have not lived in the ghetto are irrelevant ignorant people. Those same country boys are the ones who feed America rattle of cattle and take care of shit. This speaks highly of your perception of everybody who does not think like you. I have my opinions and you have your opinions. But I don't remember ever combining a whole group of people together and start to slander them. Maybe you need to get out from underneath your rock. You also seem like the type who would say all Muslims are terrorists. Or all Catholics are pedophiles. Or everybody with the gun is a murderer.

[Neoteny]

Why would you post a contextless video and expect no comment? I know the context of your bullshit, and that's all I need.

Nah, man, I've lived in some bumfuck places and some poor areas. Pops was in the army. Despite the funding they get, it doesn't pay well. It is what it is. I'm, uh, not, like, afraid of black people or anything, so I'm not the sort of person to assume that all urban areas are full of dangerous hooligans. I'm just putting you in corn fields because you got super offended when I said people hate the midwest and you threatened me with... food supply? It's funny. Like, a normal person sort of rolls with the punches, maybe takes a poke back. Atlanta is absolutely not all urban and the south is ripe for easy shots. But you couldn't even manage that. You just wanted to take your cows and go home. Which is fine. That's the go away part. Now we just need the shut the f*ck up.

[warmonger1981]

Why would you post a contextless video and expect no comment? I know the context of your bullshit, and that's all I need.

Nah, man, I've lived in some bumfuck places and some poor areas. Pops was in the army. Despite the funding they get, it doesn't pay well. It is what it is. I'm, uh, not, like, afraid of black people or anything, so I'm not the sort of person to assume that all urban areas are full of dangerous hooligans. I'm just putting you in corn fields because you got super offended when I said people hate the midwest and you threatened me with... food supply? It's funny. Like, a normal person sort of rolls with the punches, maybe takes a poke back. Atlanta is absolutely not all urban and the south is ripe for easy shots. But you couldn't even manage that. You just wanted to take your cows and go home. Which is fine. That's the go away part. Now we just need the shut the f*ck up.

I can talk to you for the rest of my life. Why do you think all black people live in the hood? What a racist thing to say. I didn't say you were afraid of black people. The ghetto is not strictly based on people's skin color you idiot. It's not the 1940s. It's turning more into a social structure. You never offended me with your Midwest comment. You talk a little shit, I talk a little shit. Take the video for what it says. She's asking why he has the right to offend a transgender. The same reasons you have the right to offend me. I'm just not transgender. But if I was you would not have the right to offend. Would you?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Pretty sure you are a transgender though.

[Neoteny]

I can talk to you for the rest of my life. Why do you think all black people live in the hood? What a racist thing to say. I didn't say you were afraid of black people. The ghetto is not strictly based on people's skin color you idiot. It's not the 1940s. It's turning more into a social structure. You never offended me with your Midwest comment. You talk a little shit, I talk a little shit. Take the video for what it says. She's asking why he has the right to offend a transgender. The same reasons you have the right to offend me. I'm just not transgender. But if I was you would not have the right to offend. Would you?

Bro, you were filling your diaper and talking about not shipping us any grain anymore. If we're calling that shit talk, what's even the point? I've seen New York Times op eds with more teeth than that. Ross Douthat could spit hotter than you.

I'm aware of the complexities of race and class, thanks. I don't need a lecture from someone still working out whether being told to stop being a dick is limiting free thought.

What sort of dipshit even asks if someone has the right to offend another person? In what universe is that a normal conversation to have? What massive nerditude has led to this being something people feel the need to talk about? You have the right to be offensive insofar as I have the right to tell you to shut the f*ck and go away. This isn't Ph.D. level thinking here. It isn't thought-provoking or novel. Go be a turd. Just don't be a bitch about it when nobody wants to hang out with you.

[mrswdk]

What sort of dipshit even asks if someone has the right to offend another person?

I believe the argument about 'right to offend' centers around anecdotes of controversial speakers being stopped from speaking in universities when people protested against them. The loudest antagonists only seem interested in defending the right to say things that people perceive as discriminatory, but it's fair enough to talk about whether or not schools supposedly promoting critical thinking should be allowing debate to be curbed in that way. Refusing to engage with those who hold different viewpoints is part of the reason why echo chambers develop.

Not that any of that applies in the context of a thread that started with:

Eat a dick you fucking faggot. I expected a dumb piece of shit like you not to understand the rights of speech. I hope I offended you.

[Neoteny]

Sure sure, and the actual context of this is whether a university professor should be kept on staff at a state university while also being disrespectful to the students he is paid to be teaching, regardless of their gender. Which, the answer is no, because a professor's personal opinions on gender shouldn't trump his students' perspectives on their own bodies in any setting, but I don't claim to know much about Canada's legal system and how they view trans people as a class, so I won't bother beyond not really wanting to come across the detritus of the "martyrdom" of the doofus in the video.

Anyhow, telling those antagonists to shut up and go away is a classic form of dissent that delegitimizes when done en mass, and is frustrating and demoralizing for those it targets. Action like the "y'all" derail serves a goal, and, congrats to anyone who participated in that; you're all now antifa supersoldiers! Not that a little online spat makes any difference, but antifascist action is essentially that on a life-size scale. Good work all.

Also, I know that warmonger gets his little willy firm by pushing the buttons of people whose buttons are easy to push. I have no problem just telling him to shut up and go away.

[Neoteny]

Not that I'm saying we should quarantine all dissent or disrespect. But the effort to curb discrimination at schools is an important one, and defending the guy who clutches pearls over pronoun usage is not going to be missed from the discourse.

[mrswdk]

Anyhow, telling those antagonists to shut up and go away is a classic form of dissent that delegitimizes when done en mass

'Shut up' doesn't delegitimize anything, no matter how many people say it.

I have no idea what the professor in OP does or doesn't say to his students. I watched clips of that interview and didn't notice him saying anything discriminatory or defending the right to say discriminatory things.

[Neoteny]

Sure it does. Maybe not in a debate nerd "well actually" logic sense, but in a political and social context, being in a large group of people and shouting down niche nonsense like white supremacy is very effective in reducing the efficacy of that communication. Twitter and the internet is sort of a different animal, because the speech still gets out, and is even amplified by dissent, but at the street level, in face to face contexts, the tactic works.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Ah yes, ganging up on the bad guys. Worked for the damn witches of Salem and the filthy Commies when McCarthy sorted them out.

-TG

[Neoteny]

Ah yes, ganging up on the bad guys. Worked for the damn witches of Salem and the filthy Commies when McCarthy sorted them out.

-TG

I mean, the left in America (the actual left, not the democrats) has been practically nonexistant even without McCarthyism, so that's not the best example, and I don't see any witches running around right now, do you? But even still, McCarthyism was 100% a larger group shouting down a smaller group, and it worked. Communism in America was pretty much stamped out.

Seriously though, we aren't talking about top down repression like the american goverment or mass hysteria (with some top down encouragement). This is referencing competing ideologies fighting for political and social handholds from the bottom up. If you don't like the tactic, that's fine. But it works when applied appropriately.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

No, I've not been hexed lately.

[Neoteny]

I rest my case.

[Dukasaur]

Sure sure, and the actual context of this is whether a university professor should be kept on staff at a state university while also being disrespectful to the students he is paid to be teaching, regardless of their gender. Which, the answer is no, because a professor's personal opinions on gender shouldn't trump his students' perspectives on their own bodies in any setting

Except you're turning the scenario upside-down completely. It's not that he's expressing any opinion on their gender, it's that he's expressing a lack of opinion on their gender. All he wants, all most reasonable people want, is to classify people quickly and efficiently without having to hear their entire emo speech about what they think of themselves. If it looks like you're swinging a dick, I'll call you "he", if it looks like you're packing a pair of milk jugs I'll call you "she". Either way, I'm not going to squeeze them to see if they're real. I don't care if you really are a girl or a boy or pre-op or post-op, I just want to get through roll call without being assaulted by the long tragic emo tale of your sad little life. I just want to decide what to call you within the first 0.01 seconds of meeting your without having to spend 20 minutes discussing it, and without having to memorize any trendy new pronouns. Male, female, and neuter have served us fine for the 5 million years or so that we've been using language. People who think everybody needs to learn a new set of pronouns just for them are deliberately making a spectacle of themselves. They're not avoiding discrimination, they're inventing it -- nobody would have thought of discriminating against them if they hadn't gone out of their way to draw attention to themselves and paint themselves as something special.

Which is one of the (few) valid points Peterson makes -- and keep in mind I think 90% of his stuff is total horseshit, but he does have one or two valid things to say -- that "political correctness exists in two types: PC-Egalitarianism and PC-Authoritarianism." PC Egalitarianism is wanting to avoid discrimination. It's when you don't want to be fired from your job because of your sexual orientation or your ethnic background or your religion. I'm fine and dandy with that. As long as you're doing your job, I totally agree that the it's none of anybody's business who you're fucking or who your granddaddy was or what imaginary ghost you worship, and you should not be treated any worse or paid any less because of it. PC-Authoritarianism, on the other hand, is when you get in people's faces and demand they acknowledge what you are and/or demand special treatment because of it, and then imagine yourself "aggressed against" when people don't want to play that game.

There's only one social policy that makes sense:
DON'T ASK -- DON'T TELL

We (sane people) promise not to discriminate against you because of your sexual orientation as long as you don't constantly torture us by needing to describe it to us in gruesome detail.

[mrswdk]

If he refers to someone as 'she' and they reply 'I prefer 'he'' then he could just say 'okay then, he' without having any kind of debate whatsoever. If he decides to turn it into a big song and dance about how it's his right to call them whatever he wants then he is the one being difficult, not them.

PC-Authoritarianism, on the other hand, is when you get in people's faces and demand they acknowledge what you are and/or demand special treatment because of it, and then imagine yourself "aggressed against" when people don't want to play that game.

This sounds like something you've imagined rather than something actually happens in real life.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

You mean like that law passed in California criminalizing pronoun misuse?

-TG

[mrswdk]

Is asking people to refer to you as 'he' because you identify as 'he' really 'getting in people's faces'?

Perhaps you are right and there ought to be an accompanying law providing funding for all the snowflakes left shell-shocked at being asked to treat other people with courtesy and respect.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I don't care, if someone wants to be known as whatever that's fine. I think courtesy is a bedrock for true civilization.

But if i call you assface, should i be imprisoned or fined? Obviously not, it's absurd. But in California, a healthcare professional may be fined or imprisoned for using the wrong pronoun.

-TG

[Bonnie16]

The CC people call me both he and she. This vexes me and I no longer comprehend which I am.
To summarize, TG the buttplug sucker should be imprisoned for future use of the wrong one, which I can not conclude
since - as told - I do not know anymore.

You can all suck my dick.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Probably what i get for sucking buttplug.

-TG

[Dukasaur]

If he refers to someone as 'she' and they reply 'I prefer 'he'' then he could just say 'okay then, he' without having any kind of debate whatsoever. If he decides to turn it into a big song and dance about how it's his right to call them whatever he wants then he is the one being difficult, not them.

I don't think he's refused to call anyone 'he' or 'she' as they wish. It's these trendy new pronouns like 'zhe' and 'zir' that he's refusing to use.

[mrswdk]

I don't care, if someone wants to be known as whatever that's fine. I think courtesy is a bedrock for true civilization.

But if i call you assface, should i be imprisoned or fined? Obviously not, it's absurd. But in California, a healthcare professional may be fined or imprisoned for using the wrong pronoun.

-TG

The guy who created the law seems to think that under his new law it's incredibly unlikely that any significant punishment would be handed out to a care worker who insisted on referring to someone using the incorrect pronoun. Probably because the fine and prison time are maximum possible punishments for a wide range of actions, of which the pronoun thing is just one.

[mrswdk]

If he refers to someone as 'she' and they reply 'I prefer 'he'' then he could just say 'okay then, he' without having any kind of debate whatsoever. If he decides to turn it into a big song and dance about how it's his right to call them whatever he wants then he is the one being difficult, not them.

I don't think he's refused to call anyone 'he' or 'she' as they wish. It's these trendy new pronouns like 'zhe' and 'zir' that he's refusing to use.

I fail to believe that being called 'zir' is something that is important to many people. Like, how often in your daily life do you hear or read someone referring to you as 'he'? It's fair enough to say that we ought to use genderless pronouns instead of gendered ones - because there is no need to distinguish between whether or not someone is male or female when speaking about them - but the only people making a huge fuss about it (on either side of the argument) are people who want to make a ruckus for the sake of hearing themselves speak.

The guy in OP is a university professor so he will be used to dealing with angry students looking for a cause to latch on to, and knows that the best course of action is to just smile and say 'yes'. The only reason he's making this big public stand about it is to sell his book, and he has succeeded.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I don't care, if someone wants to be known as whatever that's fine. I think courtesy is a bedrock for true civilization.

But if i call you assface, should i be imprisoned or fined? Obviously not, it's absurd. But in California, a healthcare professional may be fined or imprisoned for using the wrong pronoun.

-TG

The guy who created the law seems to think that under his new law it's incredibly unlikely that any significant punishment would be handed out to a care worker who insisted on referring to someone using the incorrect pronoun. Probably because the fine and prison time are maximum possible punishments for a wide range of actions, of which the pronoun thing is just one.

HAHAHAHA