Moderator: Community Team
DirtyDishSoap wrote:I feel like I've had a more invested time in it, with the games the occasional book, growing up with the originals and the prequels (not that I'm defending the latter), but when Disney took over the reigns and released The Force Awakens, I was...Really meh about it? The Last Jedi is released afterwards and it's clearly a political correctness type fucking movie that blew my head off. The film itself, plot wise, is garbage. The film adding in random purple haired girl, Rey the Mary Sue, Finn the token black guy and Rose Binks, who's somehow on par with Jar Jar is where I'm drawing a lot of ire.
You can create a shitty film like the prequels but at least it was world building. It built upon Anakin and Sidious story, character and motivations. In the new movies, there's almost no world building, at all.
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:taking medical advice from this creature; a morbidly obese man who is 100% convinced he willed himself into becoming a woman.
Your obsession with mrswdk is really sad.
ConfederateSS wrote:Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:What was the point of Finns character in the Last Jedi? What did he accomplish?
Symmetry wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:What was the point of Finns character in the Last Jedi? What did he accomplish?
In episode 8? Completed a character arc from stormtrooper to rebel, overcoming his selfish and cowardly side.
Symmetry wrote:Became one of the lead fighters in the rebellion.
Symmetry wrote:Has a whole mission to secure secret codes.
Symmetry wrote:Was one third of a love triangle with Rose and Rey.
Symmetry wrote:Killed Captain Phasma, one of the big baddies.
Symmetry wrote:I'm not sure what your point is.
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:taking medical advice from this creature; a morbidly obese man who is 100% convinced he willed himself into becoming a woman.
Your obsession with mrswdk is really sad.
ConfederateSS wrote:Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:Symmetry wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:What was the point of Finns character in the Last Jedi? What did he accomplish?
In episode 8? Completed a character arc from stormtrooper to rebel, overcoming his selfish and cowardly side.
He did this in Episode 7. Why do we need to see the same thing?Symmetry wrote:Became one of the lead fighters in the rebellion.
He did one scene where he fought with the resistance. Most of the movie was focusing on his arbitrary sublot that didn't go anywhere.Symmetry wrote:Has a whole mission to secure secret codes.
You could remove this entire section of the film and the movie would not change at all.Symmetry wrote:Was one third of a love triangle with Rose and Rey.
Even you have to admit that the Rose romance was forced, come on...As for Rey, that's left ambiguous at best.Symmetry wrote:Killed Captain Phasma, one of the big baddies.
LOL!
The "big baddie" with less screen time than Boba Fett, an equally worst character. Woo, what an accomplishment.Symmetry wrote:I'm not sure what your point is.
That he's there for the sake of diversity and nothing more.
Symmetry wrote:Then your point is silly, as he's one of the main characters in the new trilogy.
Symmetry wrote:As for the rest, Boba Fett was a very minor character compared to Phasma. A better comparison would be the one line, one shot bad-guy Darth Maul. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that your prequel-loving self considers that dude one of the big bads.
Symmetry wrote:The trooper to rebel arc wasn't really complete till he faced down his old commander.
Symmetry wrote:The Rose stuff was nice, sorry to be a big ol' romantic. She seems better for him than Vader Jr does for Rey. Filmmakers are interesting that way- juxtaposing relationships.
Symmetry wrote:Anyway you look at it- even with your constant shifting of goalposts, Finn really isn't a token character.
Maybe the "forced" is with you.
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:taking medical advice from this creature; a morbidly obese man who is 100% convinced he willed himself into becoming a woman.
Your obsession with mrswdk is really sad.
ConfederateSS wrote:Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong.
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:taking medical advice from this creature; a morbidly obese man who is 100% convinced he willed himself into becoming a woman.
Your obsession with mrswdk is really sad.
ConfederateSS wrote:Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:The idea behind the token black guy is that he's there to just be a black guy. That's it. So what makes Finn unique or what made him pivotal in this movie to have him?
Here's how I imagine how the film writing went;
Writer - "So we know what we want to do with Rey, but what about Finn?"
Rian - "Finn? Who's that?"
Writer - "The black storm trooper."
Rian - "Oh...Well, I don't know. Have him be a coward and fight Phasma."
Writer - "Phasmas dead though."
Rian - "Well, we'll bring her back in a book using an outside media source to explain how she lived the last minute."
Writer - "Ok....And what else?"
Rian - "Uhhhh...Ok, so lets cut Finns screen time in half...Annnnnd...We need more diversity...So let's add this Asian girl...who falls in love with him for who he is."
Writer - "A coward and a bumbling idiot?"
Rian - "Yes, she loves him for being a coward and a bumbling idiot, except he learns the same lesson again AND we make her dumber."
Writer - "Brilliant."
Rian - "Throw in LOTS of action so people don't pay too much attention to the plot, I'm just kind of tossing stuff together randomly so Disney doesn't can me."
Writer- "Sure thing. This film will put Michael Bay to shame."
thegreekdog wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:The idea behind the token black guy is that he's there to just be a black guy. That's it. So what makes Finn unique or what made him pivotal in this movie to have him?
Here's how I imagine how the film writing went;
Writer - "So we know what we want to do with Rey, but what about Finn?"
Rian - "Finn? Who's that?"
Writer - "The black storm trooper."
Rian - "Oh...Well, I don't know. Have him be a coward and fight Phasma."
Writer - "Phasmas dead though."
Rian - "Well, we'll bring her back in a book using an outside media source to explain how she lived the last minute."
Writer - "Ok....And what else?"
Rian - "Uhhhh...Ok, so lets cut Finns screen time in half...Annnnnd...We need more diversity...So let's add this Asian girl...who falls in love with him for who he is."
Writer - "A coward and a bumbling idiot?"
Rian - "Yes, she loves him for being a coward and a bumbling idiot, except he learns the same lesson again AND we make her dumber."
Writer - "Brilliant."
Rian - "Throw in LOTS of action so people don't pay too much attention to the plot, I'm just kind of tossing stuff together randomly so Disney doesn't can me."
Writer- "Sure thing. This film will put Michael Bay to shame."
(1) Finn doesn't have to exist as a character.
(2) Finn doesn't have to be black.
Which one of those is your position?
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:taking medical advice from this creature; a morbidly obese man who is 100% convinced he willed himself into becoming a woman.
Your obsession with mrswdk is really sad.
ConfederateSS wrote:Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:thegreekdog wrote:(1) Finn doesn't have to exist as a character.
(2) Finn doesn't have to be black.
Which one of those is your position?
Both
2dimes wrote:I definately agree with this part.DirtyDishSoap wrote:thegreekdog wrote:(1) Finn doesn't have to exist as a character.
(2) Finn doesn't have to be black.
Which one of those is your position?
Both
Where my opinion diverges and I put way too much into writing this but...
First, it's supposed to be all action and not quite realistic. R2-D2 is some sort of hero instead of just a robot programmed to repair things. You forget the weird fact that him and BB-8 hang out with a pilot then ride along with them in their X wing fighters to fix damage incurred during battle. Yet in the first movie he's with Pricess Leia, where's her X wing fighter? Then when Luke bugger's off to drink blue milk almost straight from the teat R2-D2 just goes to sleep. Why didn't he just hang out with "General Leia" the real Mary Sue? You never bitched about any of that did you?
2dimes wrote:Second, even though Finn does not have to be African or even exist, and even if DDS thinks he's dumb and what have you for being flawed, I like him.
I find it interesting and even healthy for the writers to slip him in with the stormtroopers, that until him were all white. I think it's probably a really good thing for the US who is not having very good race relations these days to introduce that racial diversity into the bad guys without making the character himself a bad guy. If the stormtroopers continued to be all white it would just allow for more race baiting theories once the First Order or whatever the empire is being called now, happened to became the Nazis in the new series, eventually the SJWs would suggest, "Of course they're the bad guys, that's what white people do."
2dimes wrote:I'm sure some are making that into their truth as it is. I don't need to make him a villain, maybe there will be an African bad guy in a Star Wars story later. I'm ok if there never is though.
He literally went through this transition in the first movie, again, I fail to see the point in devolving the character when he already has an investment in the resistance anyways. If the writers had made him suffer PTSD because of what he saw on Starkiller base or from his spine inducing injury that should have crippled him, I'd get that. But they fail to do that and just revert to him not evolving at all.2dimes wrote:I like that Finn is not convinced he should ever help the Rebels. He just keeps getting sucked in. He really only wants to get away from fighting and that makes him a coward and perhaps a filthy deserter who should be court marshaled, but not dumb.
2dimes wrote:If he seems dumb it's because he was programmed to be a stormtrooper. Let's remember his name is FN-2187 It was Poe that said, "I'm not calling you that. How about Finn."
2dimes wrote:He was never expected to make it through stormtrooper programming as a person with a conscience. It was considered an error when he realizes what was going on is bad. He was just supposed to smoke the villagers in the first film like the other stormtroopers but his programming failed.
2dimes wrote:It looked to me like that was somewhat normal, no one freaked out they were just calmly talking about sending him to be checked and presumably he would be re-programmed or maybe euthanized. Except we never found out because he snuck away and then he found Poe and helped him escape.
2dimes wrote:As a veteran that seems very bad since he is deserting, but consider how we feel about Nazis during World War II that figured out they were on the wrong side, and subsequently helped people dodge death camps and or escape the region. He is supposed to be like that.
2dimes wrote:So that was fine, and he was thinking, "Cool, I'm out of here." Then his plan backfired when Poe took him back to fetch BB-8 which may have worked if they had not crashed. Fortunately he found BB-8 who was with Rey who through poor writing (insert your complaint that she is a Mary Sue, I wish she was so she would have just killed Kylo right away instead of letting him return to be Emo next movie.) is a pilot but also won't leave the dessert planet because she is hoping her family comes back...
2dimes wrote:As for continuity errors they have been doing that re-writing the story on the go with errors and occasional bad ideas since the Empire Strikes Back.
George never thought they would let him make another one so he made it a weird one off. Then he added the big surprises, "I am your father." The hot princess is dudes sister...
That's why I never get involved in those silly, "This is cannon." Debates. Any bizarre thing they throw in will become "cannon" if there is no backlash. Sometimes dispite backlash. Han shot Greedo without it being self defense because he was a bit of a Vader like guy. Then as things changed he developed into a reluctant good guy. Better go back and ruin the first film to make it fit the new story.
If lots re-writing with occasional bad things slipping in bothers you, maybe you're a Trekkie. Do you want to talk about midichlorians? Let's blame Disney for that it will be fun.
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:taking medical advice from this creature; a morbidly obese man who is 100% convinced he willed himself into becoming a woman.
Your obsession with mrswdk is really sad.
ConfederateSS wrote:Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:This is why I hate that no one knows what happens in the 30 years after the Empires collapse because we assume that The First Order just picks up the pieces and continues the conquest? Again, if the fighting continued for 30 years, most of these storm troopers are probably battle hardened veterans, whereas Finn is just some dude that scrubs floors.
thegreekdog wrote:(1) Racism isn't a thing in the Star Wars universe. While having a black stormtrooper may be a thing in the real world, it is not a thing in Star Wars. No one in the Star Wars universe cared whether Lando was black or not; fans did, sure, but Luke and Han and Leia and Vader and Fett and Nien Nunb did not. So no one in the Star Wars universe cared that Finn was black. The dialogue wasn't "You're a stormtooper?" "Yes" "But you're black?"
(5) I suspect John Boyega was asked to play a stormtrooper to achieve some racial diversity in the newest Star Wars trilogy. I'm okay with that because (a) he's a good actor and (b) he does play an important everyman role.
(6) I hate Captain Phasma.
2dimes wrote:I made a new post to say I really agree with these points.thegreekdog wrote:(1) Racism isn't a thing in the Star Wars universe. While having a black stormtrooper may be a thing in the real world, it is not a thing in Star Wars. No one in the Star Wars universe cared whether Lando was black or not; fans did, sure, but Luke and Han and Leia and Vader and Fett and Nien Nunb did not. So no one in the Star Wars universe cared that Finn was black. The dialogue wasn't "You're a stormtooper?" "Yes" "But you're black?"
(5) I suspect John Boyega was asked to play a stormtrooper to achieve some racial diversity in the newest Star Wars trilogy. I'm okay with that because (a) he's a good actor and (b) he does play an important everyman role.
(6) I hate Captain Phasma.
Phasma is kind of hot though...
I also would like to see that crappy ginger looking guy in charge of the First order that Kylo keeps fighting with take Kylo out. "You're obviously a bad guy, Snoke is gone. Get him before he gets you. He killed his own father, you must know it's coming!"
Maybe Kylo won't kill him but that doesn't make sense either except I suppose Renn knows the guy is subservient. Still I'd like that and it would blow away the regular fans.
thegreekdog wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:This is why I hate that no one knows what happens in the 30 years after the Empires collapse because we assume that The First Order just picks up the pieces and continues the conquest? Again, if the fighting continued for 30 years, most of these storm troopers are probably battle hardened veterans, whereas Finn is just some dude that scrubs floors.
I'll try to explain based on what I've read, but I'll probably butcher this. And spoiler alerts.
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:taking medical advice from this creature; a morbidly obese man who is 100% convinced he willed himself into becoming a woman.
Your obsession with mrswdk is really sad.
ConfederateSS wrote:Just because people are idiots... Doesn't make them wrong.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:thegreekdog wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:This is why I hate that no one knows what happens in the 30 years after the Empires collapse because we assume that The First Order just picks up the pieces and continues the conquest? Again, if the fighting continued for 30 years, most of these storm troopers are probably battle hardened veterans, whereas Finn is just some dude that scrubs floors.
I'll try to explain based on what I've read, but I'll probably butcher this. And spoiler alerts.
So wait, where is this explained? If this is from a book, I'll be butt hurt.
Sym - The casting choice for Phasma doesn't matter, it's that the character Phasma being written off and her being a waste of talent is the issue. She doesn't do anything in the films except get thrown in the garbage or fall into a pit of flames...Phasma as a character, sucks.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:thegreekdog wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:This is why I hate that no one knows what happens in the 30 years after the Empires collapse because we assume that The First Order just picks up the pieces and continues the conquest? Again, if the fighting continued for 30 years, most of these storm troopers are probably battle hardened veterans, whereas Finn is just some dude that scrubs floors.
I'll try to explain based on what I've read, but I'll probably butcher this. And spoiler alerts.
So wait, where is this explained? If this is from a book, I'll be butt hurt.
Sym - The casting choice for Phasma doesn't matter, it's that the character Phasma being written off and her being a waste of talent is the issue. She doesn't do anything in the films except get thrown in the garbage or fall into a pit of flames...Phasma as a character, sucks.
Symmetry wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:thegreekdog wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:This is why I hate that no one knows what happens in the 30 years after the Empires collapse because we assume that The First Order just picks up the pieces and continues the conquest? Again, if the fighting continued for 30 years, most of these storm troopers are probably battle hardened veterans, whereas Finn is just some dude that scrubs floors.
I'll try to explain based on what I've read, but I'll probably butcher this. And spoiler alerts.
So wait, where is this explained? If this is from a book, I'll be butt hurt.
Sym - The casting choice for Phasma doesn't matter, it's that the character Phasma being written off and her being a waste of talent is the issue. She doesn't do anything in the films except get thrown in the garbage or fall into a pit of flames...Phasma as a character, sucks.
So you're upset that Phasma, who has a key role in the films so far, was wasted because she was both played by a great actor, and sucked at it. Darth Maul, as a character and as an actor, actually was piss poor, but there's a lot of Star Wars fanboy comics about him.
Hell, even Darth Vader took three or four actors to put together.
Symmetry wrote:(6) I hate Captain Phasma.
Everything Gwendoline Christie does is amazing. It's odd that people don't like her as Phasma. It's weird that people who think that casting Boyega was a "token" or "diversity" casting choice as a stormtrooper, yet they're reluctant to point out the 6'3" woman who's a stormtrooper captain.
Return to Practical Explanation about Next Life,
Users browsing this forum: No registered users