Dukasaur wrote:Yeah, you're very smart and everybody else is stupid. I get it.
Thanks. I’m glad we agree on something.
Dukasaur wrote:You know, there's something I've learned investigating safety complaints at work: If one guy trips coming up the stairs, he's probably a klutz. If ten guys trip coming up the stairs, maybe there's something fundamentally wrong with how the stairs are designed.
If one American was fat, he was probably a gluttonous pig. If seventy percent of Americans are fat, maybe there's something fundamentally wrong with the system. Maybe.
You are missing the point.
The thread is not about diet in general and how Americans (and Europeans too for that matter) are generally too heavy.
The thread is about how
SOME YOUNG PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE GETTING SO FAT THAT THEY NEED BARIATRIC SURGERY. As stated before, you are talking so fat, as a teenager when their metabolism can generally handle a LOT of crap… and then even with interventions they can’t lose the weight. Yes, I am assuming interventions because doctors can’t just go into the operating room the day after they see a FAT kid for the first time.
This is not “I could stand to lose 20lbs”… this is not “I’m 50 years old and I work at a desk and commute 2 hours and have no time to exercise so I’m carrying 40 extra pounds”… this is not “My husband cheats and my kids don’t pay attention to me anymore, so I pop pain meds and drink wine in the afternoon and now I look like Rosie O’Donnell”.
This is “I’m 16yo and I should weigh 150lbs; but I do nothing and my parents don’t care and I’m probably taking ADHD or Depression Meds (which are overprescribed IMHO) and now I weigh 350lbs.”. You don’t get surgical intervention for weight loss unless you are severely overweight and have “tried” to lose weight more conventionally.
I stand by my position… if your kid is so fat he/she needs surgical intervention to lose weight then;
YOU HAVE FAILED AS A PARENT!=====
Now, do we want to have a thread about the weight problem in America?
Sure. It’s really a different issue but we can talk about it.
(I mean yeah related, but the extreme example of obscenely overweight teens is such a small part of the overall weight issue that it should be looked at differently IMHO.)
One note first… yeah America is leading the world with our weight gain and obesity; but like most of our culture we are exporting it and if you look at the statistics you will see Europe, Canada, Australia… all the West is catching up. I presume other parts of the world are or will catch up as they “modernize” as well.
Causes?
These aren’t universal and obviously location and income play a role.
1) Ease of access to food in general.
We evolved in a food insecure world. Our bodies adapted to this. Now we have nearly unlimited access to food.
2) Food Preparation
Until very recently (let’s say last 60-75 or so years) even though we had good access to food we still often needed to do food preparation. Now we don’t even need to do that. Restaurants are more plentiful and prepackaged or prepared foods are available 24/7 in many places.
3) Processed Foods
Your main point. The types of foods we can consume are growing heavier in caloric intake; while not necessarily getting better in their nutritional value. Obvious culprits like refined sugar or high fructose corn syrup exist; and our brains generally send us signals that they love this shit! We evolved to gouge on sugars in the rare instances (i.e. when fruits were ripe) when we had access to these foods… so our brains still tell our bodies to “go for it”.
You add those “empty” calories to all the additives and chemicals we use to color, flavor, and preserve these foods? I don’t even pretend to know how these things can impact your body. Some are probably bad, especially in quantity. Some likely f*ck up how your body processes food. Studies are imperfect or not done… and even when a study shows something like fake sugar messes digestion people still use it.
4) Lack of Exercise / Sedentary Lifestyle
This is probably the biggest single fact IMHO… and it is the thing that has most radically changed within the last 30-50 years. Obviously we evolved as people who moved and worked constantly. Even as we industrialized we still moved, stood up, worked. In the last 30-50 years the % of people behind desks or in chairs has increased. We drive more and walk less. Even short walks say from the train station to the office happen less… more people just drive to the office, or some don’t even leave home. In some places kids seem to be less active… not outside running around. This may be because screens, but it also is just cultural changes in some places.
5) Screens
Yeah… screens are a big factor. They enable us to have sedentary jobs, they encourage us to ‘sit and watch’ instead of exercise. That’s obvious. That said… I watch TV while I walk in the treadmill. There are days I just won’t walk outside because it’s cold or rain or too dark. So screens in this case help by making my treadmill exercise more pleasant it encourages/enables me to walk more.
The bigger problem with screens is how they affect our brains. Two ways I can think of…
a) Games and Social Media impact dopamine levels in our brains. This can affect behavior in numerous ways. You can get caught up in the games and social media shit and this can distract you from other stuff… which may impact your ability or time to exercise or eat healthy. That said, many people are starting to “gamify” exercise. So those screens can be used for good… but you have to constantly be on guard. (For example I am wasting what 20 minutes typing this response, s]which I could’ve instead used to do something productive.)
b) Screens have a negative impact on sleep. At least if/when the are used at night and right before bed. Studies show a negative impact on sleep. If you don’t get proper sleep your body rhythms get fucked up and you metabolism gets fucked up and you gain weight.
6) Medications / Pills
I am thinking ADHD, Depression, Anxiety, and even Pain medication. I think this is also a very recent phenomena. I think these meds can be beneficial to individuals in very specific circumstances and when properly and regularly monitored. That said, IMHO they are all over prescribed and once prescribed they tend to continue being used past the point where they may be necessary.
Obviously not all of these pills have the same affect… but I know several people (some close some more distant) who either take pills like these or have kids who take these pills. Often (but not always and depending on the specific medicine/condition which I don’t always know) I see that the person taking the medication gains weight. I don’t know if the medication impacts a person’s eating habits, or if the medication directly impacts the metabolism of the recipient. I just have seen enough of this to see a correlation. This in combination with the how many people are taking pills strikes me as a bad combination.
7) Shame
Shame is good. We used to shame people when they “did bad things”. People had to go to the Welfare Office to get their check… now they get an EBT card and there is no shame so they are happy to be on Welfare their whole lives. I can find other examples where lack of community “shame” leads to negative behavior.
The same applies to weight. I was always “the fat kid” in school. I look back at my pictures now and I see a kid who was over 6 feet and weighed 185lbs… and I look skinny to me now; but I had a pudge and my friends had flat stomachs and so I was the “fat” kid. I was likely “fatter” before my high school growth spurt… but I was never obese. I worked and had access to money and ate a lot of crap. That said the “shame” of being “the fat kid” likely helped prevent me from getting even fatter.
Nowadays you can’t call someone fat. If you do you are ostracized for being mean. In some ways it is good that we are trying to limit “bullying” but some parts of society have taken this too far. Many celebrities (i.e. Lizzo as the most obvious example) are held in high esteem and a celebrated for being “fat and beautiful”. Sorry Lizzo, you can sing pretty good and for a big girl you can move… but you are obscenely obese and you will likely die of heart disease before you are 60.
Social media is full of fat people who are “proud” of their bodies, and fat people who think society should bend for them. There’s a whole series of videos you can find were “large people advocates” go on and complain how companies should change just to accommodate them. I’m talking about shit like… a woman who is 5’6” 300+ and complains that airlines should make wider seats or let her get two seats for the price of one. I’m sorry hun… I’m 6ft 2in. There is NOTHING I can do about my height… but you could drop 100lbs+ plus if you ate a few less twinkies and went for a walk once in awhile.
I’m not saying we should scream “fatty” at every kid who is overweight… but I do think we should stop letting people lie and pretend that being obese is “just who they are” and “completely out of their control”.
So in summary Duk.Yes… I agree there are societal factors that make gaining weight easy. I agree there are conditions and circumstances that may make losing weight hard. I agree that processed food and the greed of food corporations is one of several factors.
I also believe they the
SINGLE BIGGEST FACTOR in determining who will be fat or obese; who will need surgery or not… is
INDIVIDUAL ACTION.
At the end of the day you are a human being with self will. As such you can DECIDE to eat another Twinkie… or you can decide to go for a walk.
Society does NOT make that decision for you.. Food corporations do not make that decision for you. Apple, Google, TikTok do not make those decisions for you.
… and if you are a minor… then it is your Parent’s responsibility to guide you in that decision making process. The parent’s ability to guide you is a sliding scale… starting at 100% decision making responsibility when you are an infant; and eventually going to zero (hopefully) when you are a fully functional adult member of society.
So yeah… my position remains unchanged.
Using your broken stair analogy. Yeah OK if the stairs are broke it should be fixed… but meanwhile if I see ten guys tripping going up those stairs; maybe I should use some judgement and be a bit extra careful when I have to go up?