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jusplay4fun wrote:I do not see this (Battle of Tsushima) one of the "Greatest." Yes, this battle encouraged what eventually became the Japanese attempt for domination in the Pacific and near China later in the 20th century, but not a decisive, history changing battle. This is NOT a key pivot (or inflection) point where the outcome of the battle dictates the course of human history for the next century or beyond.
Yes, this MAY have led some 36 years later to Japan’s bold attack on Pearl Harbor. AND that has led to US policy in the Pacific, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. BUT other battles in the chain of event were more decisive and significant (e.g., the Battle of Midway, among others, about which I have already commented).
JP
jusplay4fun wrote:I still disagree. The end result of WWII and Midway was that the 36 year "dominance" of the Japanese Navy was relatively short-lived. The US has been the dominant Naval power in the Pacific for over 65 years, since the end of WWII.
Also, I never saw the Russian Navy as a big player in the Pacific, unless you want to look at the Bering Sea.
The interests of the US Naval forces in the Pacific started in a signfificant way with Commodore Perry by steaming into Japan in 1853-54. I have already addressed that issue in this Forum. The US presence in the Pacific took a big step in the Spanish-American War.
The Japanese knew they had to cripple the US Fleet based at Pearl Harbor to have a chance to really dominate the Pacific, so I would further argue that your contention is faulty.
JP
ConfederateSS wrote:jusplay4fun wrote:I still disagree. The end result of WWII and Midway was that the 36 year "dominance" of the Japanese Navy was relatively short-lived. The US has been the dominant Naval power in the Pacific for over 65 years, since the end of WWII.
Also, I never saw the Russian Navy as a big player in the Pacific, unless you want to look at the Bering Sea.
The interests of the US Naval forces in the Pacific started in a signfificant way with Commodore Perry by steaming into Japan in 1853-54. I have already addressed that issue in this Forum. The US presence in the Pacific took a big step in the Spanish-American War.
The Japanese knew they had to cripple the US Fleet based at Pearl Harbor to have a chance to really dominate the Pacific, so I would further argue that your contention is faulty.
JP
------The U.S. got lucky at Midway....The Japanese had the Lance Torpedo...THE BEST FIGHTER AT THAT TIME THE ZERO....THE BEST AIRCRAFT CREWS/NAVAL...As I mentioned about War games between the 2 navies in the 30's...They not only kicked our ass in them. They learned our naval techniques....Up until June 4th, 1942...The Japanese Navy was even more feared then the British...FDR...was more worried about the Japanese...Then the Japanese were worried about the U.S...If they feared us, they never would of attacked Pearl Harbor...As Germany had the European powers tied up...The U.S. was the only real threat to Japan,taking over the East Indies,for Oil,steel,etc...Because FDR, cut them off,as their land invasions became more frequent...THE 2 NAVIES WERE HEADED FOR EACH OTHER LIKE 2 OUT OF CONTROL TRAINS ON THE SAME TRACK...If we didn't catch the Japanese with their pants down at Midway...The Japanese won that day...They might of continue their attacks towards Australia...As for Russia, after the loss of 5,000 plus men/and large amounts of ships, and the 1st time a European power lost to an Eastern power in centuries. Put the people at odds with The CZAR,as he tried to rebuild his military through force...Which would led to the protests that continued to plaque his rule...Black Easter,the Russian losses in WWI...Well, the End of the CZARS...Hello ,communism...Can be traced back to Port Arthur and Tsushima defeats...,stop looking through USA GLASSES.TRY WORLD GLASSES... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
jusplay4fun wrote:JUS as in Europe, Japan prepared for war, building up their military with new ships, aircraft, armaments, and the technology to advance all that. SO of course the Japanese Zero was better than American aircraft. The same could be said of the German aircraft and their tanks and other weapons. AND guess what, we still won, after being behind early. JUS like in Europe.
JP 4 Facts,
OUTConfederateSS wrote:jusplay4fun wrote:I still disagree. The end result of WWII and Midway was that the 36 year "dominance" of the Japanese Navy was relatively short-lived. The US has been the dominant Naval power in the Pacific for over 65 years, since the end of WWII.
Also, I never saw the Russian Navy as a big player in the Pacific, unless you want to look at the Bering Sea.
The interests of the US Naval forces in the Pacific started in a signfificant way with Commodore Perry by steaming into Japan in 1853-54. I have already addressed that issue in this Forum. The US presence in the Pacific took a big step in the Spanish-American War.
The Japanese knew they had to cripple the US Fleet based at Pearl Harbor to have a chance to really dominate the Pacific, so I would further argue that your contention is faulty.
JP
------The U.S. got lucky at Midway....The Japanese had the Lance Torpedo...THE BEST FIGHTER AT THAT TIME THE ZERO....THE BEST AIRCRAFT CREWS/NAVAL...As I mentioned about War games between the 2 navies in the 30's...They not only kicked our ass in them. They learned our naval techniques....Up until June 4th, 1942...The Japanese Navy was even more feared then the British...FDR...was more worried about the Japanese...Then the Japanese were worried about the U.S...If they feared us, they never would of attacked Pearl Harbor...As Germany had the European powers tied up...The U.S. was the only real threat to Japan,taking over the East Indies,for Oil,steel,etc...Because FDR, cut them off,as their land invasions became more frequent...THE 2 NAVIES WERE HEADED FOR EACH OTHER LIKE 2 OUT OF CONTROL TRAINS ON THE SAME TRACK...If we didn't catch the Japanese with their pants down at Midway...The Japanese won that day...They might of continue their attacks towards Australia...As for Russia, after the loss of 5,000 plus men/and large amounts of ships, and the 1st time a European power lost to an Eastern power in centuries. Put the people at odds with The CZAR,as he tried to rebuild his military through force...Which would led to the protests that continued to plaque his rule...Black Easter,the Russian losses in WWI...Well, the End of the CZARS...Hello ,communism...Can be traced back to Port Arthur and Tsushima defeats...,stop looking through USA GLASSES.TRY WORLD GLASSES... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
HitRed wrote:Golden Hind vs. Nuestra Señora de la Concepción
During this navel battle Sir Francis Drake captured a treasure so vaste it took 6 days to unload. The English Queen's share of the treasure paid off the entire English government debt! The financial return, and that of other investors, was more than £47 for every £1 invested, or 4,700%.
Controlling the oceans brings rewards.
HitRed
jusplay4fun wrote:Battle of Salamis
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Battle of Salamis (/ˈsæləmɪs/; Ancient Greek: Ναυμαχία τῆς Σαλαμῖνος, Naumachia tēs Salaminos) was a naval battle fought between an alliance of Greek city-states under Themistocles and the Persian Empire under King Xerxes in 480 BC which resulted in a decisive victory for the outnumbered Greeks. The battle was fought in the straits between the mainland and Salamis, an island in the Saronic Gulf near Athens, and marked the high-point of the second Persian invasion of Greece.
To block the Persian advance, a small force of Greeks blocked the pass of Thermopylae, while an Athenian-dominated Allied navy engaged the Persian fleet in the nearby straits of Artemisium. In the resulting Battle of Thermopylae, the rearguard of the Greek force was annihilated, whilst in the Battle of Artemisium the Greeks had heavy losses and retreated after the loss at Thermopylae. This allowed the Persians to conquer Boeotia and Attica. The Allies prepared to defend the Isthmus of Corinth whilst the fleet was withdrawn to nearby Salamis Island.
Although heavily outnumbered, the Greek Allies were persuaded by the Athenian general Themistocles to bring the Persian fleet to battle again, in the hope that a victory would prevent naval operations against the Peloponnese. The Persian king Xerxes was also eager for a decisive battle. As a result of subterfuge on the part of Themistocles, the Persian navy rowed into the Straits of Salamis and tried to block both entrances. In the cramped conditions of the Straits, the great Persian numbers were an active hindrance, as ships struggled to maneuver and became disorganized. Seizing the opportunity, the Greek fleet formed in line and scored a decisive victory.
Although heavily outnumbered, the Greek Allies were persuaded by the Athenian general Themistocles to bring the Persian fleet to battle again, in the hope that a victory would prevent naval operations against the Peloponnese. The Persian king Xerxes was also eager for a decisive battle. As a result of subterfuge on the part of Themistocles, the Persian navy rowed into the Straits of Salamis and tried to block both entrances. In the cramped conditions of the Straits, the great Persian numbers were an active hindrance, as ships struggled to maneuver and became disorganized. Seizing the opportunity, the Greek fleet formed in line and scored a decisive victory.
Xerxes retreated to Asia with much of his army, leaving Mardonius to complete the conquest of Greece. However, the following year, the remainder of the Persian army was decisively beaten at the Battle of Plataea and the Persian navy at the Battle of Mycale. The Persians made no further attempts to conquer the Greek mainland. These battles of Salamis and Plataea thus mark a turning point in the course of the Greco-Persian wars as a whole; from then onward, the Greek poleis would take the offensive. A number of historians believe that a Persian victory would have hamstrung the development of Ancient Greece, and by extension western civilization, and this has led them to argue that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history.[5]
ConfederateSS wrote:jusplay4fun wrote:Battle of Salamis
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Battle of Salamis (/ˈsæləmɪs/; Ancient Greek: Ναυμαχία τῆς Σαλαμῖνος, Naumachia tēs Salaminos) was a naval battle fought between an alliance of Greek city-states under Themistocles and the Persian Empire under King Xerxes in 480 BC which resulted in a decisive victory for the outnumbered Greeks. The battle was fought in the straits between the mainland and Salamis, an island in the Saronic Gulf near Athens, and marked the high-point of the second Persian invasion of Greece.
To block the Persian advance, a small force of Greeks blocked the pass of Thermopylae, while an Athenian-dominated Allied navy engaged the Persian fleet in the nearby straits of Artemisium. In the resulting Battle of Thermopylae, the rearguard of the Greek force was annihilated, whilst in the Battle of Artemisium the Greeks had heavy losses and retreated after the loss at Thermopylae. This allowed the Persians to conquer Boeotia and Attica. The Allies prepared to defend the Isthmus of Corinth whilst the fleet was withdrawn to nearby Salamis Island.
Although heavily outnumbered, the Greek Allies were persuaded by the Athenian general Themistocles to bring the Persian fleet to battle again, in the hope that a victory would prevent naval operations against the Peloponnese. The Persian king Xerxes was also eager for a decisive battle. As a result of subterfuge on the part of Themistocles, the Persian navy rowed into the Straits of Salamis and tried to block both entrances. In the cramped conditions of the Straits, the great Persian numbers were an active hindrance, as ships struggled to maneuver and became disorganized. Seizing the opportunity, the Greek fleet formed in line and scored a decisive victory.
Although heavily outnumbered, the Greek Allies were persuaded by the Athenian general Themistocles to bring the Persian fleet to battle again, in the hope that a victory would prevent naval operations against the Peloponnese. The Persian king Xerxes was also eager for a decisive battle. As a result of subterfuge on the part of Themistocles, the Persian navy rowed into the Straits of Salamis and tried to block both entrances. In the cramped conditions of the Straits, the great Persian numbers were an active hindrance, as ships struggled to maneuver and became disorganized. Seizing the opportunity, the Greek fleet formed in line and scored a decisive victory.
Xerxes retreated to Asia with much of his army, leaving Mardonius to complete the conquest of Greece. However, the following year, the remainder of the Persian army was decisively beaten at the Battle of Plataea and the Persian navy at the Battle of Mycale. The Persians made no further attempts to conquer the Greek mainland. These battles of Salamis and Plataea thus mark a turning point in the course of the Greco-Persian wars as a whole; from then onward, the Greek poleis would take the offensive. A number of historians believe that a Persian victory would have hamstrung the development of Ancient Greece, and by extension western civilization, and this has led them to argue that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history.[5]
---------Some what o.K...I already talked about this battle/battles....Justplay4fun....Please stop using Wiki...Please.........
-------Here is what happened...
-----1st) Themistocles left before the fall of Thermopylae...That is how the Persians got behind the 300.....But let us go over what happened before that......Both Navies had the same type of ships so no advantage there...The Persians had 1,000 to the Greeks 200 ships.......The Persians sent 200 ships around the Island of Eubouea....to get behind the Greek fleet...Blocking the straits of Artemisium...A storm destroyed those ships...Now it was 800 vs 200...Just before night fell ,Themistocles launched an attack on the Persian navy...He knew when night came, the battle would stop...THE GREEKS WON THAT NIGHT...TO EVERYONE'S SURPRISE...They most likely out rowed the Persians...No one really knows why the Greeks did so well...
-----2)The Greeks went and rescued people from Athens and took them to Salamis......Now the Greeks rested up and set up their defense at Salamis...Waited for the Persians,after they burned Athens to the ground...killing those that stayed behind...For you see,the oracle at dephi told them in Athens...they wood be saved by wooden walls...It wasn't the Walls around Athens...It turned out to be,those who were saved, were saved by the wooden ships of the Greek navy.
------3)THE BATTLE OF SALAMIS ,WAS A GREEK VICTORY...once again the ships were the same...once again the Greeks smashed the Persian fleet........
-------The ships were the same in all, except one thing...The Greeks were defending their home...So they did not travel far...So their ships spent less time in moving in the water...Where the Persian fleet...had to travel farther and farther...The wood that made up their ships became heavy and water logged...This is the only qualified theory as to why THE GREEK NAVY OUT PREFORMED THE PERSIAN NAVY...The lighter/not water logged ships of the Greeks allowed them more speed...for ramming and mobility...Yes it was a bad ass battle...West over East...You can verify these facts if you do real research Justplay4fun... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
ConfederateSS wrote:--------The saving of THE WEST FROM THE EAST.........In 2 battles...out numbered 6 to 1 in ships, all the ships were the same so no one should have had an advantage in that manner...THEMISTOCLES DESTROYING THE PERSIANS IN THE SAME ATTACK FORCE AT ARTEMISIUM AND SALAMIS.....IT ALL CAME DOWN TO WHO WAS FASTER...A BATTLE OF SPEED VS SPEED ,AS THEY RAMMED EACH OTHER'S SHIPS... But credit for the battle will always be given to the land part of the attack...THE 300... ...Oh,well...it's all GREEK to me... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
jusplay4fun wrote:I agree with CSS here.
JPConfederateSS wrote:--------The saving of THE WEST FROM THE EAST.........In 2 battles...out numbered 6 to 1 in ships, all the ships were the same so no one should have had an advantage in that manner...THEMISTOCLES DESTROYING THE PERSIANS IN THE SAME ATTACK FORCE AT ARTEMISIUM AND SALAMIS.....IT ALL CAME DOWN TO WHO WAS FASTER...A BATTLE OF SPEED VS SPEED ,AS THEY RAMMED EACH OTHER'S SHIPS... But credit for the battle will always be given to the land part of the attack...THE 300... ...Oh,well...it's all GREEK to me... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
waauw wrote:jusplay4fun is right on that account. The 1917 revolution was inspired by the poor living conditions, not by any military battles. The Czar was stuck between a rock and a hard place. The military didn't want to give up on the war because they didn't want all their suffering to be for naught. The British and French had even offered them the city of Istanbul if they stuck through to the end of the war. The people on the other hand were desperate to accept Germany's offering of a white peace.
The Czar sided with the military, but didn't foresee one crucial problem; many of the inland garissons around their cities more or less supported the revolutionaries. The Czar had only the frontline armies on his side.
ConfederateSS wrote:jusplay4fun wrote:Battle of Salamis
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Battle of Salamis (/ˈsæləmɪs/; Ancient Greek: Ναυμαχία τῆς Σαλαμῖνος, Naumachia tēs Salaminos) was a naval battle fought between an alliance of Greek city-states under Themistocles and the Persian Empire under King Xerxes in 480 BC which resulted in a decisive victory for the outnumbered Greeks. The battle was fought in the straits between the mainland and Salamis, an island in the Saronic Gulf near Athens, and marked the high-point of the second Persian invasion of Greece.
To block the Persian advance, a small force of Greeks blocked the pass of Thermopylae, while an Athenian-dominated Allied navy engaged the Persian fleet in the nearby straits of Artemisium. In the resulting Battle of Thermopylae, the rearguard of the Greek force was annihilated, whilst in the Battle of Artemisium the Greeks had heavy losses and retreated after the loss at Thermopylae. This allowed the Persians to conquer Boeotia and Attica. The Allies prepared to defend the Isthmus of Corinth whilst the fleet was withdrawn to nearby Salamis Island.
Although heavily outnumbered, the Greek Allies were persuaded by the Athenian general Themistocles to bring the Persian fleet to battle again, in the hope that a victory would prevent naval operations against the Peloponnese. The Persian king Xerxes was also eager for a decisive battle. As a result of subterfuge on the part of Themistocles, the Persian navy rowed into the Straits of Salamis and tried to block both entrances. In the cramped conditions of the Straits, the great Persian numbers were an active hindrance, as ships struggled to maneuver and became disorganized. Seizing the opportunity, the Greek fleet formed in line and scored a decisive victory.
Although heavily outnumbered, the Greek Allies were persuaded by the Athenian general Themistocles to bring the Persian fleet to battle again, in the hope that a victory would prevent naval operations against the Peloponnese. The Persian king Xerxes was also eager for a decisive battle. As a result of subterfuge on the part of Themistocles, the Persian navy rowed into the Straits of Salamis and tried to block both entrances. In the cramped conditions of the Straits, the great Persian numbers were an active hindrance, as ships struggled to maneuver and became disorganized. Seizing the opportunity, the Greek fleet formed in line and scored a decisive victory.
Xerxes retreated to Asia with much of his army, leaving Mardonius to complete the conquest of Greece. However, the following year, the remainder of the Persian army was decisively beaten at the Battle of Plataea and the Persian navy at the Battle of Mycale. The Persians made no further attempts to conquer the Greek mainland. These battles of Salamis and Plataea thus mark a turning point in the course of the Greco-Persian wars as a whole; from then onward, the Greek poleis would take the offensive. A number of historians believe that a Persian victory would have hamstrung the development of Ancient Greece, and by extension western civilization, and this has led them to argue that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history.[5]
---------Some what o.K...I already talked about this battle/battles....Justplay4fun....Please stop using Wiki...Please.........
-------Here is what happened...
-----1st) Themistocles left before the fall of Thermopylae...That is how the Persians got behind the 300.....But let us go over what happened before that......Both Navies had the same type of ships so no advantage there...The Persians had 1,000 to the Greeks 200 ships.......The Persians sent 200 ships around the Island of Eubouea....to get behind the Greek fleet...Blocking the straits of Artemisium...A storm destroyed those ships...Now it was 800 vs 200...Just before night fell ,Themistocles launched an attack on the Persian navy...He knew when night came, the battle would stop...THE GREEKS WON THAT NIGHT...TO EVERYONE'S SURPRISE...They most likely out rowed the Persians...No one really knows why the Greeks did so well...
-----2)The Greeks went and rescued people from Athens and took them to Salamis......Now the Greeks rested up and set up their defense at Salamis...Waited for the Persians,after they burned Athens to the ground...killing those that stayed behind...For you see,the oracle at dephi told them in Athens...they wood be saved by wooden walls...It wasn't the Walls around Athens...It turned out to be,those who were saved, were saved by the wooden ships of the Greek navy.
------3)THE BATTLE OF SALAMIS ,WAS A GREEK VICTORY...once again the ships were the same...once again the Greeks smashed the Persian fleet........
-------The ships were the same in all, except one thing...The Greeks were defending their home...So they did not travel far...So their ships spent less time in moving in the water...Where the Persian fleet...had to travel farther and farther...The wood that made up their ships became heavy and water logged...This is the only qualified theory as to why THE GREEK NAVY OUT PREFORMED THE PERSIAN NAVY...The lighter/not water logged ships of the Greeks allowed them more speed...for ramming and mobility...Yes it was a bad ass battle...West over East...You can verify these facts if you do real research Justplay4fun... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
jusplay4fun wrote:a British fleet under Admiral Lord Nelson
Nelson divided his 27 ships into two divisions and signaled a famous message from the flagship Victory: “England expects that every man will do his duty.”
The great dramas of dynastic transition have often seemed remote when viewed from the Pearl River Delta. Dynasties rose and fell in the great valleys of the Yellow River basin, the lush battlefields of the Yangtze region, or in the walled passes and plains surrounding Beijing. But the Song Dynasty, which ruled China from 960 to 1279, played out its final act just off the coast of Guangdong. Memorials to the last Song emperors — and the stout defenders who supported them against their archenemies the Mongols — can still be found throughout the region.
By the middle of the 13th century, the Song court was in deep trouble. The armies of Genghis Khan, his sons, and grandsons, had overrun most of their territory and by 1274 were in a position to take the Song capital Lin’an, today’s Hangzhou.
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