CCSL: On HOLD

[Iron City Brewer]

This is unfortunate as I had remained an active subscriber after considering not renewing primarily due to the SL. I had reluctantly joined initially because I was not a fan of 1 vs 1 games or fog games. The group was very supportive and the commentary Craig provided kept me engaged. Fast forward to today and I can't imagine where I'd be without the SL. It is part of my daily routine and an escape from stress. It's a very well ran and enjoyably tournament which I will certainly miss. If it does not return, it will be hard to fill that void and a tough decision to remain a subscriber. I hope cooler heads prevail and amends be made.

ICB

[Tviorr]

Im enjoying the Super League a lot and its responsible for a lot of my activity on CC.

Would hate to see it die - quick or slow.

I have very limited understanding of what exactly happened to cause everything to hit the fan, but Id like to advice all parties to have a look in the mirror and see if there is an adult in there looking back. - If so, then have a reread and a rethink and if people are still convinced that the other guy/side is/are arseholes, then simply agree not to talk to or about each other. Failing that, there is a FOE option and the possibility to simply ignore people that rightly or wrongly pisses one off.

Personally I have a few people on my FOED list. To be frank silence and time is a great cure. I doubt I can remember the reason - real or imagined - that anyone of them got added to my FOED list. Quite possibly there could have been reasons that I was added to someones FOED list - real or imagined - amongst the people on my list or amongst other people.

To me life is too short to hate people on online sites. And much too short to hash out the detailed truth of who said what and why. - Even if there are no Russians, Bots or Republicans involved, even people that care about the truth will experience it differently. And there will be different value and justification attached to posts. Usually its fairly easy to get offended and fairly easy to then dismiss whatever banter or insults there happen to be in ones own posts as justified because the other guy side is the bad guy/bad side.

In short nothing aint ever gonna be fair to everybody according to everybody.

So if anything is to run with any degree of smoothness, its necessary to do some ignoring and settle for hating someone in relative silence.

After all the very best revenge is living well.

[Kotaro]

I have very limited understanding of what exactly happened to cause everything to hit the fan, but Id like to advice all parties to have a look in the mirror and see if there is an adult in there looking back. - If so, then have a reread and a rethink and if people are still convinced that the other guy/side is/are arseholes, then simply agree not to talk to or about each other. Failing that, there is a FOE option and the possibility to simply ignore people that rightly or wrongly pisses one off..

Absolutely the most adult take on this forum. My favorite part of all this is, of course, that Craig had the offending party, Swimmer, on his foe list previously. This means Craig had to notice Swimmer's posts, intentionally click on them, read them and get offended. People go to all lengths to get offended, I suppose.

[nickthesticks]

Maybe if I had the time to read the whole forum comments I would understand what the hell was going on? CCSL is the best thing I've done on CC, always have games to play. If it goes away I may just fade away also. Not has many speeders as there was in the past, reason for going premium in the first place.

[Lord_Bremen]

For anyone wanting to know what this is about you can see it here :
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=241903&view=unread#unread

This is a link to the C&A (Cheating and Abuse) Report that Craig made about Swimmerdude.
In the first post of the C&A there is a link to the championship 1v1 thread where you can see the posts that caused Craig to open the report.

Can't know about any PMs that would have gone between Craigs and mods of course.
But it's looking like Craig is not happy with the mods not giving a punishment to Swimmerdude.

Seriously? Are we all in kindergarten now that we throw a tantrum because a stranger was mean to us on the internets? Being mean on the forum isn't against the rules, that's what the foe button is for so you don't see it.

The tourney has been fun, and I appreciate all the work it takes, but you could really use some thicker skin dude.

[Mad777]

This sound so familiar, another drama queen event like…lmao

So happy to be just a reader and not to have to deal with Mr Ego…have fun team!

[jstefa]

Gutted. I was finally going to move up! I will miss the super league.

[jacktoo]

Many thanks for all your hard work.

[king achilles]

Hi All,

For the purposes of clarity and transparency. And the fact I have CC Mods now attacking my character. I am going to share my correspondence on this matter.

Below is my mail to CC owners which I would have preferred to keep private. It was in addition to my Complaint. However, it appears I am facing a MOD PILE ON. So bring it on. NOTE: The Posts in question have been deleted by A Mod on the Championship Forum.

Hi king achilles & BigWham,

(CC'd other League Organisers and Shoop)

There is much of what I say here which Is very personal and cannot be shared on a public Forum.

I am giving both of you a heads up as I have had to file a complaint against a player.
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=241903

As my feelings on the abuse the player has given me is in my opinion is way too far, and has come at a particularly bad time for me. It has the potential to end the Super League in it's current form. Given it's popularity among over 300 CC Players, I would not want to imagine the fall out it could cost by many of these players dwindling away from CC. As a long time contributor to CC that is something I clearly do not want to happen. But this has the potential to cause that.

In thread:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=240355&start=100&p=5347311&view=show#p5347311

I hope CC has the strength to do the right thing on this matter.

Regards

Craig

And the response:

I will not hand out any ban. I will warn him to stop communicating or responding or referencing you or your league and if he still continues, then that the time a forum ban will be issued. That goes the same for you. Telling him that he needs a "personality transplant" or "sick in the head" " and a sick puppy" doesn't help. Please put him in your Foe list and I will tell him the same thing. I will delete posts where the two of you were responding to each other or referencing one another, all in just to provoke. It is expected that either of you won't listen to what the other says and would rather refute and ridicule one another - on and on. For any future posts, please do NOT reference him or communicate with him anymore.

And my appeal:

Hi ka

I have CC'd Super League Organisers, Big Wham and Shoop 76.

2 of the 3 insults were AFTER he attacked my character by saying I dis-respected a dead member of CC. And me saying he needed a "personality transplant" is very lame to allow for his character assassination to go un-punished. I would ask you to re-consider.

I do not think I can let this go given the level of abuse. Best thing I can do is to just put the Super League on hold for a couple of months, to let myself calm down. Frankly, with the abuse it is no longer worth the hassle. Furthermore, it is now a reminder of my own dead father, from a player who has received ZERO Punishment. This is now beyond the pale.

I will need to make Super League Players aware of why. Is this acceptable? If not please amend it to what is acceptable? I also assume that you can only moderate what is said on CC channels?


Regards

Craig

[xroads]

What

A

Fucking

Pussy

[Craig25]

If I am going to be BANNED for sharing my mail trail. The Super League and plenty of players will be departing this site with me. At the start of this process, I thought CC maybe have 50-100 regular Super League Players dwindle away from the Site. Reading this Pile on from the small clique of players and Mods who do not actually play in the League but seem to have everything against Me for building it. I reckon 200-250 will eventually go.

In fact, to be clear. If anybody is only renewing for the Super League. Don't renew. Because by the looks of it. It won't be coming back. Well I say won't. But CC will try to cobble something together and it will be absolutely shit. I know it, and, almost 300 Players in the Super League know it.

So, if you are hoping for a League ran my Myself, Anila8, ESQuire and Ewebasher. DO NOT RENEW. If we do come back, you will get plenty of notice to return. All you would need to do is log back in to CC once a week to check.

So, in order for Mods and CC to understand this absolutely.

Super League is an important tournament, and like many important events on CC before it, it would likely be best run by the mod team

-Does any Super League Players want a Team of Mods to run the Super League?

This sound so familiar, another drama queen event like…lmao

So happy to be just a reader and not to have to deal with Mr Ego…have fun team!

-I had to actually KICK Mad777 from the League as he was telling people that I knew a Members Dad had died and made fun of him after the event. He was telling people I knew because he told me. When it was uncovered as a lie he was telling people. He refused to apologise on a public forum and he was KICKED in front of every Super League Organiser at the time. Frankly to have him re-appear on this forum actually repulses me.


And finally, you've read what the Mods with their Agenda have to say.

Here is what Players in our League had to say who saw the comments:

Hope it gets resolved soon...some of the comments werent banter or funny just plain nasty when you were trying to help them get the championships full. People need to be appreciative - anyway Craig hope your back soon.

That's how I read it too.

I have raised this matter with CC's top brass, I will be devastated if this doesn't get resolved.

CCSL is the best thing that's happened to CC in the past few years.

And in answer to the multiple Drama Queen comments from Mods. I am actually disgusted with CC. If we are to return and maintain this League with 300 Players. In my opinion, most of whom will quit if CC try to hi jack this.

There will be Red Lines that CC will need to meet prior to it's return.


So for anybody thinking they could simply remove me from the Super League, well, it maybe not be possible unless you want to take down CC with it.

This frankly is the most disgusting response I have ever had to make. On a Forum that I specified in the 1st line was "Forum is for input for Players in the Super League ONLY" is not a surprise that I am being faced with a barrage of abuse yet again. The very thing I am refusing to tolerate in the 1st place.

Enough is Enough CC.

[*Pixar*]

As any related issue would have ended. This is simply a FAMO. The fact that you chose to reveal Swimmers message and rebuttal is on you. Sorry but I view this as soft as hell.

[Craig25]

Does this thread look like related issues have ended?

Read above. The last thing I wanted to have to do is release the entire correspondence. But, we are where we are.

As any related issue would have ended. This is simply a FAMO. The fact that you chose to reveal Swimmers message and rebuttal is on you. Sorry but I view this as soft as hell.

[Rockiesman]

I have to admit…my wife will finally get her wish if CCSL does not return as it is really the only reason I’m still playing on this site.

[Craig25]

f*ck, has anybody gave her the bad news yet?

I have to admit…my wife will finally get her wish if CCSL does not return as it is really the only reason I’m still playing on this site.

[ESQuire]

If I am going to be BANNED for sharing my mail trail....

Confirmed: Craig25 is currently banned.
As it sits, it looks like I won't be sending out Match Day08 tomorrow as I had hoped to do.
Let's see what a night's sleep brings.

[raderiba]

It was fun playing CCSL, I was looking forward progressing through the League’s and finding out how good am I ( or not good:)). What ever happens with the League, I will stay on CC until the end of the year, because I started playing other tournaments and I believe if you start something you should see it through. About all the drama regarding current events,Craig25; I find your response to this situation funny to say at least… man up and f..k the trolls (and please don’t take this personnel because I am nobody important in your life and it doesn’t matter what the f..k I say or write here). And thanks for the best tournament that I played so far.

[groovysmurf]

Dude, where is this abuse you keep speaking of?! Seriously.

In the short term, I am looking for Support from CC in ending Swimmerdude99's behaviour, ending his constant criticising of the League which he does not play in and ending any further contact with Myself. Given the severity of what he has said, I am asking for a LENGTHY BAN, 1 or 2 weeks will not suffice, and a strict warning that he cannot be commenting on Tournaments or Tournament Organiser's when he is not an active participant. Needless to say, he better not have absolutely any inter action directly with me also.

"Constant criticising" = 1 comment about super league members acting cultish, a joke
Ending contact - You had him FOED! You chose to open his messages and you CHOSE to take everything he said as some personal attack against you, which they were not.
The severity of what?!?!
He WAS an active participant in the tournament in question!
So, you're saying he can't talk to you, talk about your CC sponsored tournament or mention you in any way, ever...oh AND you want him banned from the site for months! This all for someone who has been incredibly active on this site for 15 years without a single infraction issued to him. WHY? And why in the hell would you actually think this would be okayed?


I'm sorry about your father, I truly am, but what about the fact that you called a fellow mod names just days after his father died for the sole purpose of getting laughs and making him look like a moron...and why would you do this, because he politely asked you to not send him mass PMs, that's IT. And yes, you didn't realize that his father had just passed when you did that. That's why I privately messaged you, asking you to please not publically shame my fellow mod and friend as he was going through a rough time. That was enough for you to drag my name through the mud, spread bullshit lies and rumors about me and tell everyone I had abused you, too!!! Do you even know what abuse means?


And you know as well as most other people (at least mods) here just what you tried to do with the memorial tournament for CaronylKluster. You took out all the stuff that made it a memorial because it didn't fit your agenda of promoting yourself and super league. This isn't a malignment of your character, it's the fucking truth. Mad wasn't spreading lies about you! He was defending his TEAM and trying to maintain a memorial tournament for someone he loved, a tournament that you were actively destroying! You were banned because you publicly shared private information, including bits and pieces of private messages to try and make yourself look like the victim and us to look like the bad guys. You did this to try and incite a riot of sorts...that is the furthest thing from honorable.


Now for Swimmerdude99, a very well liked and well respected member of this site. He was told not to post messages regarding you and he has not and will not because he follows the rules! I would like to say something on his behalf and if anyone is to be punished for sharing this, please let it be me.

My friend CK passed away. Craig said he'd run the tournament, then he modified the rules without asking those of us who had set it up to be an extension of the super league and mandatory singup to pms that pissed members off. We wanted a tournament that allowed all maps, because that was CK's way. Every map was playable, and he loved being a jack of alll trades (and coincidentally the only thing he disliked about the super league). Craig refused to listen, edited my memorial of half the content to exclude any references to prayer, God, etc to which we then had to get TOs to step in, and take it back from him just so we could get our words out there about our beloved friend. This upset Craig to no end. His tournament, his super league, his PMs all seemed more important than my friend, and our memories of him. And he never backed down. Just continued to PM, and whine about how “he knew best”. To a group of at least 5 or 6 people who knew CK so well.

He apparently foed me afterwards. He refused to listen, and acted entitled just because CK had once said he enjoyed the super league. CK enjoyed a lot of things. Including weekly phone calls with me, our clan, genuine connection and kindness. None of those were accounted for by Craig, and he showed no empathy or respect. I will not apologize for being upset by someone who acts this way. I wish Craig wasn't going through something similar. Perhaps he can recognize how much strife he caused others back then, since he is in a similar situation, today.

The players in Super League are the ones I care about. They deserve better than to constantly be used as hostages in your negotiations for your demands to be met. If you want to run the tournament, than RUN it and do it for them; not for laughs, not for accolades or applause. Do it because you care and because you have something to offer that others enjoy; something that makes people happy! Quit threatening to end it all every time you don't get your way! GROW UP!

[Bad-Ape]

This all feels so unnecessary. I’m not getting into the ins and outs of who said what to whom but it does feel like Craig and the CCSL have been on the receiving end of some pretty unfair criticism over time.

I enjoy playing CC very much and try to engage in various tournaments as well as one off games. CCSL is certainly one of the tournaments I like the best. Great format, good and friendly competition between players, excellent back office structures to keep the whole thing running, and excellent (and often funny updates).

If it’s true Craig has been banned and consequently CCSL is on hold, then I very much hope this gets resolved as soon as.

[theelkspeaks]

As someone too new to the site to have been here for the memorial tournament or know anything about the situation, I feel like I have some basic understanding from this thread of why each side feels the way they do, and that these two sides are pretty irreconcilable with each other.

I'm not going to argue with either side, I'm just here to play CC in whatever tournaments exist because I think tournaments are cool and I like playing the game. Anyone who posts a tournament that looks interesting to me? I'm probably gonna sign up. The TPA looks like it was super cool too! CCSL? Also pretty awesome! Clans? Looking to find one! Tribes? Potentially joining one soon!

Whatever resolution can ensure that these two sides don't have to interact with each other and let the rest of us keep playing whatever cool format tournaments anyone on this site comes up with is damn good in my book

[Keefie]

Craig,

As you know I've been a very strong advocate for yourself and your team, going back to when benga was head TO and was offering you very little support.

But what has happened over the past couple of days, you've lost me. CC has looked at what happened in the Championship thread and issued appropriate infractions. Your just using the Super League as a weapon to blackmail CC, all because you want one player who has a clean record, banned. Sadly, the only people being hurt here are the 300 Super League players, who you shouldn't be using as pawns in this.

Sorry mate but you are just plain out of order.

If you don't want to do this anymore, that's fine by me, but for the 300 let your team continue.

Thanks for everything you've done over the years.

[Coors1]

I have been around for a long long time, and one of the really only reasons i play here is for tourneys, and CCSL is one of the few i really enjoy playing. If this tourney does end, it will be the nail in the coffin for me on this site.

I'm not much for any drama, and just enjoy playing best I can with many good players here. I don't agree with any name calling or abuse, and truly feel the foe option to ignore those players should be used. I personally just find it easier just to ignore those types of players, but that is just me. At 65, i can not bother with some people stupidly, so I just ignore them.

I really hope this can come to a mutual satisfaction and the Tourney does continue, it is one of the best in all the time i have been in here.

[anonymus]

I was a bit late to the party, so started at the bottom & have been playing my up the SL for the past year and a half/two years..
Just my luck that its existence gets threatened as soon as I stand to join the Premiere League next season..
:sigh:

/

[Lord Banner]

Show compassion, and focus on the positives. Please don't hang on to grudges.
We are entering a new age. Choose love over being right

And while we're at it why not add a heart to the emoji's list

[detlef]

Dude, where is this abuse you keep speaking of?! Seriously.

In the short term, I am looking for Support from CC in ending Swimmerdude99's behaviour, ending his constant criticising of the League which he does not play in and ending any further contact with Myself. Given the severity of what he has said, I am asking for a LENGTHY BAN, 1 or 2 weeks will not suffice, and a strict warning that he cannot be commenting on Tournaments or Tournament Organiser's when he is not an active participant. Needless to say, he better not have absolutely any inter action directly with me also.

"Constant criticising" = 1 comment about super league members acting cultish, a joke
Ending contact - You had him FOED! You chose to open his messages and you CHOSE to take everything he said as some personal attack against you, which they were not.
The severity of what?!?!
He WAS an active participant in the tournament in question!
So, you're saying he can't talk to you, talk about your CC sponsored tournament or mention you in any way, ever...oh AND you want him banned from the site for months! This all for someone who has been incredibly active on this site for 15 years without a single infraction issued to him. WHY? And why in the hell would you actually think this would be okayed?


I'm sorry about your father, I truly am, but what about the fact that you called a fellow mod names just days after his father died for the sole purpose of getting laughs and making him look like a moron...and why would you do this, because he politely asked you to not send him mass PMs, that's IT. And yes, you didn't realize that his father had just passed when you did that. That's why I privately messaged you, asking you to please not publically shame my fellow mod and friend as he was going through a rough time. That was enough for you to drag my name through the mud, spread bullshit lies and rumors about me and tell everyone I had abused you, too!!! Do you even know what abuse means?


And you know as well as most other people (at least mods) here just what you tried to do with the memorial tournament for CaronylKluster. You took out all the stuff that made it a memorial because it didn't fit your agenda of promoting yourself and super league. This isn't a malignment of your character, it's the fucking truth. Mad wasn't spreading lies about you! He was defending his TEAM and trying to maintain a memorial tournament for someone he loved, a tournament that you were actively destroying! You were banned because you publicly shared private information, including bits and pieces of private messages to try and make yourself look like the victim and us to look like the bad guys. You did this to try and incite a riot of sorts...that is the furthest thing from honorable.


Now for Swimmerdude99, a very well liked and well respected member of this site. He was told not to post messages regarding you and he has not and will not because he follows the rules! I would like to say something on his behalf and if anyone is to be punished for sharing this, please let it be me.

My friend CK passed away. Craig said he'd run the tournament, then he modified the rules without asking those of us who had set it up to be an extension of the super league and mandatory singup to pms that pissed members off. We wanted a tournament that allowed all maps, because that was CK's way. Every map was playable, and he loved being a jack of alll trades (and coincidentally the only thing he disliked about the super league). Craig refused to listen, edited my memorial of half the content to exclude any references to prayer, God, etc to which we then had to get TOs to step in, and take it back from him just so we could get our words out there about our beloved friend. This upset Craig to no end. His tournament, his super league, his PMs all seemed more important than my friend, and our memories of him. And he never backed down. Just continued to PM, and whine about how “he knew best”. To a group of at least 5 or 6 people who knew CK so well.

He apparently foed me afterwards. He refused to listen, and acted entitled just because CK had once said he enjoyed the super league. CK enjoyed a lot of things. Including weekly phone calls with me, our clan, genuine connection and kindness. None of those were accounted for by Craig, and he showed no empathy or respect. I will not apologize for being upset by someone who acts this way. I wish Craig wasn't going through something similar. Perhaps he can recognize how much strife he caused others back then, since he is in a similar situation, today.

The players in Super League are the ones I care about. They deserve better than to constantly be used as hostages in your negotiations for your demands to be met. If you want to run the tournament, than RUN it and do it for them; not for laughs, not for accolades or applause. Do it because you care and because you have something to offer that others enjoy; something that makes people happy! Quit threatening to end it all every time you don't get your way! GROW UP!

Bringing the heat!