Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.
Post Reply
User avatar
GabonX
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:38 am
Gender: Male
Contact:

Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by GabonX »

President Barack Obama was today accused of a major U-turn after he decided to keep the controversial military commissions set up by George Bush to prosecute terror suspects.

The surprise White House announcement reversed Mr Obama’s campaign pledge to rely on America’s conventional criminal court system.

It was the president’s second U-turn this week after he changed his mind and pledged to try and block the court-ordered release of damning photographs showing US soldiers abusing prisoners.
Last night’s move led to an outcry from shocked human rights campaigners who thought Mr Obama intended to dismantle the terror tribunals after calling them ‘an enormous failure’ during last year’s presidential campaign.

In one of his first acts as president, Mr Obama obtained a 120-day suspension of the military commissions established at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba that was seen as the death knell for one of the Bush administration’s key platforms in the war on terror.

He is expected to ask for an additional 120-day delay in nine pending cases to revamp the trials.

Mr Obama is asking US Congress to expand the rights of defendants to ban evidence gained from torture or cruel treatment, limit the use of hearsay testimony and give detainees more rights to pick their own lawyers.

He wants some defendants to face trial in the civilian court system.
But aides said the president now plans to retain the Bush administration’s military commissions to try a smaller number of about 20 terror suspects.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rials.html

Maybe he's finally getting it...

There is more to the article if you follow the link.
User avatar
thegreekdog
Posts: 7246
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Gender: Male
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by thegreekdog »

Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.

Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.
User avatar
captain.crazy
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:28 pm

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by captain.crazy »

thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.

Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.


He is a totalitarian dictator... He gets plausible deniability because he didn't know a shred of what he knows now. But that should only further the notion that he, like all of his predecessors, do not have the balls to stand up to their masters and actually change the country. He is the biggest thief we have had yet.

I love president bashing... is that a hate crime yet!
wake up. This is the end game.

Join our conspiracy clan!
User avatar
nesterdude
Posts: 1006
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Babylon aka Washington, DC

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by nesterdude »

thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.

Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.

LMAO Che Gurerra from Philadelphia, uh do I smell D bag hipster?
High: 08 Dec. 08; Pts: 3141 Ranking: 57 Rank: Brig
Image
Lordhaha is my hero too.
User avatar
brooksieb
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:44 pm

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by brooksieb »

:lol: :lol: Oooooh Libbies know best, we all knew this was going to happen in the first place. :lol: :lol:

GOBAMA!! GOBAMA!! :lol: :D :lol:
User avatar
Haggis_McMutton
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:32 am
Gender: Male

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by Haggis_McMutton »

Is it me or do conservatives use way more smilies than liberals around here?

A study is in order.
Highest score: 3063; Highest position: 67;
Winner of {World War II tournament, -team 2010 Skilled Diversity, [FuN||Chewy]-[XII] USA};
8-3-7
User avatar
CrazyAnglican
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:16 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by CrazyAnglican »

Hm :?

We'll certainly have to look into that ;)

won't we? :-k

:)
Image
PLAYER57832
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Gender: Female
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by PLAYER57832 »

thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.

Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.


He is reinstituting them, but is reviewing the rules. So, they won't necessarily be the same as under Bush. Specifically, they are supposed to be getting some real representation and so forth. Also, he is not planning on the commissions for all prisoners, only a few. And, part of the reason is because they have some truly dangerous men who, due both to Bush screw ups (failures to collect evidence, etc in a manner that could be used in a court of law) simply cannot be tried in a civilian court now. A military commission may be the only real option if we don't want those people released or some classified information revealed.

As for the "socially conservative" bit... He was not given a clean playing field or slate. Once you muddy a pond and kill most of the fish off, draining it might be the best option for restoration.
User avatar
daddy1gringo
Posts: 532
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:47 am
Location: Connecticut yankee expatriated in Houston, Texas area, by way of Isabela, NW PR

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by daddy1gringo »

I can't prove this, but one explanation may be that as President, Obama has access to some information that makes it clear that the military tribunals are necessary.

I remember in the late 70s when Ayatollah Khomeni's people took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran, the news media was accusing the Carter Administration of being too secretive because they wouldn't publish the names of the Embassy personnel. Later we found out that to list the names would have doomed many of them because they were in the process of being smuggled out as Canadians by the Canadian embassy.

There is a reason some information is not shared with the general public, Sometimes critics are talking through their hats without that information, but the White House cannot defend itself for the same reason that the information was secret in the first place.
The right answer to the wrong question is still the wrong answer to the real question.
PLAYER57832
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Gender: Female
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by PLAYER57832 »

daddy1gringo wrote:I can't prove this, but one explanation may be that as President, Obama has access to some information that makes it clear that the military tribunals are necessary.

You don't have to guess. This is exactly what has been said. Revealing the information on some detainees (roughly 20 from what I hear) would not be possible in a civil court or at least there is enough of a doubt that the administration does not want to take the chance..

For example, it has been said that because the Bush rules were so loose, no one took the care to obtain and collect evidence in a way that could be used publically. That is, there might have been witnesses and so forth, but they were not secured, their testimony was not obtained (people might now be deceased), etc. OR, it could be that the information came from operatives who cannot reveal their identities in public court.... etc.

That, plus the fact that if those folks were tortured, and it seems pretty clear they were, then much of evidence against them, even if not actually obtained through torture, might be thrown out in a civil court.

Even so, the real point is that these folks will still be getting a trial with representation and reasonable rules, even if not those of a civilian court. Under Bush, that was not the case.
User avatar
thegreekdog
Posts: 7246
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Gender: Male
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by thegreekdog »

nesterdude wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.

Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.

LMAO Che Gurerra from Philadelphia, uh do I smell D bag hipster?


Look closer at the avatar little friend. If anything, I'm making fun of hipsters.
User avatar
nesterdude
Posts: 1006
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Babylon aka Washington, DC

Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees

Post by nesterdude »

thegreekdog wrote:
nesterdude wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.

Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.

LMAO Che Gurerra from Philadelphia, uh do I smell D bag hipster?


Look closer at the avatar little friend. If anything, I'm making fun of hipsters.

Now that's friggin funny, I retract sir, I retract
High: 08 Dec. 08; Pts: 3141 Ranking: 57 Rank: Brig
Image
Lordhaha is my hero too.
Post Reply

Return to “Acceptable Content”